Saturday, January 25, 2025

MQ-8 Fire Scout Status

Remember when the Navy was claiming that the unmanned helicopter, the MQ-8 Fire Scout, was going to revolutionize naval warfare, providing area wide surveillance, total situational awareness, target detection and tracking, fire control for remote weapons, anti-surface capability, mine countermeasures, and … well … total battlefield dominance?  Let’s check in and see how that’s coming along.
 
The Future of Naval Warfare ... bye, bye


For starters, the Navy has all but abandoned the Fire Scout.
 
The current inventory is 36 aircraft with no additional procurement planned.[1]
 
President’s Budget 2023 included a significant divestment within the MQ-8 program, resulting in the removal of all MQ-8B AVs [ed. AV = Air Vehicle] from inventory and reduction of the MQ-8C AV active operational inventory. Currently there are 11 aircraft dedicated to operational employment with 3 allocated to test and training, an increase of 1 from last year’s Annual Report. Projections for FY24 will increase the operational employment number to 15. The remainder are in a preservation status and are planned to be used for maintenance parts as necessary to support the pool of operational aircraft.[1]

Budget documents from 2024 indicate that the Fire Scout is being phased out completely.
 
Operational employment of the MQ-8C will end in Q4 FY2024 and sundown will be completed by Q4 FY2026.[2]

Instead of having hundreds of Fire Scouts roaming the battlefield and dominating our enemies, as promised, the Navy is down to around a dozen, which are being phased out, and appears to have lost interest in the platform.
 
With the near abandonment of the Fire Scout as context, there are, nominally, three variations (increments, as the Navy terms it) of Fire Scout in the works:
 
  • Endurance Baseline Increment – imaging EO/IR sensor and laser range finder and designator
  • SUW Increment – maritime search radar
  • Mine Countermeasure Increment – COBRA near shore mine detection
 
How is testing coming along?  DOT&E states,
 
The Navy has yet to complete land-based testing necessary to characterize radar performance against maritime targets.[1]


Conclusion
 
It seems that the Navy has all but abandoned the Fire Scout, presumably having realized that it has no effective use case in combat.  Of course, ComNavOps has been saying this since the first MQ-8 appeared.  Nice of the Navy to finally catch up.
 
Like the LCS, Zumwalt, and others, the Fire Scout platform has gone from being the future of naval warfare to an afterthought in a remarkably short period of time.
 
 
 
________________________________
 
[1]Director, Operational Test and Evaluation, FY2023 Annual Report, Jan 2024,
 
[2]Flight Global website, “US Navy’s MQ-8C Fire Scouts fly into retirement just two years after entering operational service”, Jan Tegler, 29-May-2024,
https://www.flightglobal.com/helicopters/us-navys-mq-8c-fire-scouts-fly-into-retirement-just-two-years-after-entering-operational-service/158500.article

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18 comments:

  1. AnonymousJanuary 25, 2025 at 12:48 PM

    No matter US or China, if a weapon is good, it will procure and deploy in large number. If it is not, then, orders will below first estimation. The only difference is Congress can slow down this in US (China's generally rubber stamp military's decisions). We have seen this on DDG-1000. F-35 is also an example as Pentagon cuts down procurements while China speeds up J-20 productions (apparently, PLA is happy with J-20). MQ-8 is another example.

    Today's proliferation of precision weapons makes finding and locating enemy targets ultra important. Next is to prevent your precision weapons' sensors interfered. To have drones able to find and locate enemy targets in distance is a good idea. Whether defence industry can make it a reality heavily depend on a nation's industry strength.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. ComNavOpsJanuary 25, 2025 at 1:05 PM

      "Whether defence industry can make it a reality heavily depend on a nation's industry strength."

      No, it depends on having a good Concept of Operations (CONOPS) and then designing equipment to fit that CONOPS. Industry will build whatever they're told to build.

      "Today's proliferation of precision weapons makes finding and locating enemy targets ultra important. "

      This is far too simplistic to be a worthwhile comment. Do you have something substantive to offer?

      Delete
    2. AnonymousJanuary 25, 2025 at 7:43 PM

      AGM-158. You need to find and keep tracking exact location of enemy ship to hit it. Yes, AGM-158 has a self-seeking mode to hit a target with strongest radar signal but this can be easily disturbed by nations like China and Russia.

      China's DF-21 and DF-26 also heavily depend on precise tracking and locating target ship. Satellites simply cannot provide exact locations thus need WZ-8 to provide initial target information. DF-26's radars have very limited ranges.

      Delete
  2. Chinese GordonJanuary 25, 2025 at 1:53 PM

    Consider this a victory for the EMCOM-Navy.
    A Jet Ranger with painted windows and a Futaba kit
    is no replacement for a SH-60.

    ReplyDelete
  3. NICOJanuary 25, 2025 at 3:11 PM

    So almost $1.5 billion was spent of this stuff for what? I know for USN it's just business as usual but make a few mistake programs like this and it adds up to real money!!! With some other useless garbage programs trashed or never even started, we could have gotten at least another DDG that has some combat value or another SSN!

    ReplyDelete
  4. AnonymousJanuary 25, 2025 at 8:08 PM

    So, are the FireScouts actively being used? Attached to deployed ships? What are those 11-15 doing?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. ComNavOpsJanuary 26, 2025 at 9:32 AM

      I've come across few, if any, references to embarked Fire Scouts.

      Delete
    2. ComNavOpsJanuary 28, 2025 at 7:07 AM

      Digging around a bit more, I do not believe the Fire Scout is in active use.

      Delete
  5. AnonymousJanuary 26, 2025 at 8:47 AM

    Was anyone fired as a result?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. ComNavOpsJanuary 26, 2025 at 9:31 AM

      No, but promotions were handed out all around!

      Delete
    2. AnonymousJanuary 27, 2025 at 4:56 AM

      And medals! Don't forget the plethora of medals handed out!

      Delete
    3. AnonymousJanuary 27, 2025 at 9:01 AM

      As we've seen and Comnavops points out this kind of acquisition or planning failure is the norm at the navy and not punished in any way. We are poorly lead.

      Delete
  6. AnonymousJanuary 27, 2025 at 8:08 PM

    Wikipedia (yeah I know, I know) says Firescout has a combat radius of 110nmi + 5 hour loiter with a max payload of 600lbs.

    MK-50 lightweight torpedo weighs 800lbs. Rule that one out.

    Wouldn't mind a mini-SPY radar with SATCOMMs oriented towards the threat axis but if my grandmother had wheels...

    ReplyDelete
  7. AnonymousJanuary 28, 2025 at 5:51 AM

    I can't help but wonder how realistically these professional warriors in the navy are anticipating what naval war will look like if they think this was a good idea.

    Lutefisk

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. ComNavOpsJanuary 28, 2025 at 7:03 AM

      "how realistically these professional warriors in the navy are anticipating what naval war will look like"

      I know your comment was rhetorical but I'll supply an answer anyway.

      One part of the answer is that our so-called professional naval warriors have no experience of combat, whatsoever. I can't blame them for not having actual combat experience since we haven't had a naval war since WWII. However, they also haven't had any realistic wargaming and that I do blame Navy leadership for.

      Another, closely related aspect, is that they have not studied naval war. Sure, they can probably rattle off names of battles, dates, and casualty figures but that's not studying war. That's just memorization of facts. Studying war means analyzing, absorbing battle plans and comparing them to what actually happened, teasing out the lessons to be learned, wargaming alternate 'what if' scenarios, etc. In short, doing what we do, here, on this blog, but even more in depth. You've seen how I analyze battles. I've been told by many naval officers that they've never encountered or engaged in anything like that.

      Finally, our professional warriors have never stepped back and looked at the broader trends and factors. What motivates the Chinese? Why would they want to fight? How would they fight? What's their view on casualties and acceptable losses? What's their view on naval attrition warfare? What constitutes victory for us and our enemy? How can we achieve victory that's worthwhile? And so on.

      When you grasp that our supposed warriors lack all the above, you realize that they CAN'T anticipate future naval warfare. It's not that they're too stupid to do so (although every decision they make provides more evidence that they are, indeed, that stupid) but that they lack the fundamental basis to do any better than they are. It would be like blaming you for not being able to design a nuclear reactor. It's not your fault. You haven't been trained to do it so why would anyone expect you to be able to do it?

      Now, the wise among our so-called warriors would recognize their knowledge gap and seek to remedy it but I suspect the day to day grind of diversity training, paperwork, and garbage tasks simply overwhelms any thought of self-training.

      You weren't looking for an answer but there you have one!

      Delete
  8. AnonymousJanuary 28, 2025 at 12:09 PM

    "You weren't looking for an answer but there you have one!"

    Not asked for, but appreciated.

    Lutefisk

    ReplyDelete
  9. BryanJanuary 28, 2025 at 8:40 PM

    Fwiw, last story I read said the lcs deployed to the red sea with a vbat on board.

    ReplyDelete
  10. AnonymousFebruary 13, 2025 at 6:41 PM

    This article states “The first deployments of the MQ-8C began in 2022 on USS Milwaukee in the 4th Fleet and USS Jackson in the 7th Fleet during 2022.

    The Navy retired its fleet of MQ-8Bs by October 2022 after 13 years of operations, including operations from frigates off Libya and two years of operations inside Afghanistan. The MQ-8B deployed on board an LCS for the first time in 2014. The Navy procured a total of 30 MQ-8Bs from Northrop Grumman.”

    https://seapowermagazine.org/navy-is-sustaining-10-operational-mq-8c-fire-scout-uavs-rest-in-storage/

    ReplyDelete

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