Friday, January 21, 2022

Future Ship Design

The Navy is currently engaged in the design of future ships to replace Burkes and Ticonderogas and is embarking on a family of unmanned vessels.  That leads us to ask, what is the Navy’s recent track record of new ship designs?  I think we all know it but here’s a listing of the last several surface ship classes the Navy has attempted and how they turned out: 

 

  • Constellation – already a failure in terms of being an obsolete design dating back to the early 2000’s
  • Ford – massive failure in terms of cost, schedule, and initial performance due to concurrent construction utilizing non-existent systems like EMALS, AAG, and weapon elevators
  • Zumwalt – complete failure due to lack of a mission and the cancellation of the ship’s main weapon system
  • America – failure due to cost, inability to operate the F-35B, and lack of a well deck
  • AFSB/MLP – failure for complete lack of mission
  • JHSV – mechanically success but lacking any useful mission or purpose
  • LCS – unmitigated disaster for every conceivable reason
  • MkVI Patrol Boat – utter failure due to lack of mission; already retired

 

Well, that’s not encouraging! 

 

The most common reason for failure in the designs is the lack of a Concept of Operations (CONOPS).  As we know, ship designs are – or should be – derived from a solid, specific, detailed CONOPS which, in turn, is derived from the military strategy and operational planning.  Further, there has been no public discussion of any war games, simulations, or tests conducted in any remotely realistic fashion which would provide a basis for design.  There has also been no discussion of the form of future naval combat and, therefore, the requirements that would derive from that form.  So, we lack all of that … and yet the Navy is proceeding with new ship designs, anyway!

 

Someday, people are going to be discussing the future ship design problems and there will be those who attempt to defend them by saying, yes, there are problems but they only became apparent in hindsight.  Hogwash!  The problems are visible here and now.  But, I digress …

 

Lacking any of the preceding design bases, let’s see if we can, at least, lay out some general requirements (as opposed to specific designs) for future naval surface combat ships.  These would be requirements and characteristics that seem obvious just by considering developments and trends in technology that would impact combat.  Again, this is not the basis for an actual ship design as that can come only from a consideration of strategic operational requirements and a specific CONOPS.  However, certain technology driven requirements seem fairly obvious.

 

Note:  The following discussion was triggered by various commenters across multiple posts.  There have been too many people who contributed to the genesis of this post to individually name them but I thank everyone.  Your comments, on any subject, whether I happen to agree or not, are always considered and often trigger new posts so … well done!

 

 

Stealth – This one seems obvious and yet we need to clearly understand the rationale.  As future missiles grow ever faster and more powerful, the likelihood of a successful missile attack increases.  One way to counter this is via stealth.  If a missile can’t find a target, it can’t hit it.  So, the purpose of stealth in ship design is not to render the ship ‘invisible’ – there’s no such thing – but to decrease the number of attacking missiles that can find the target and get a viable sensor lock.  The harder we make the attacking missiles work to get a viable sensor lock, the fewer attacking missiles we’ll have to deal with.  See, “Stealth For Dummies”. 

 

This stealth encompasses not just radar signature but infrared and visible, among others.  We tend to focus on radar but IR and optical stealth will be just as important since missile manufacturers are increasingly going to multi-mode sensors.  Optical stealth, in particular, is almost totally ignored but is an area that needs much more research.  Many manufacturers are attempting to develop missiles that find and track their targets passively (IR and optical) and we can anticipate those modes becoming much more important in future combat.

 

Stealth also includes electromagnetic emissions control (EMCON).  During the Cold War, our ships routinely operated in EMCON mode and this will become even more important in the future.  We cannot emit any stray radiation in any part of the spectrum.

 

Power – Power is one of those commodities that you can never have enough of.  One can easily foresee future needs for lasers, rail guns, larger and more powerful radars, more extensive active emitting ECM suites that dwarf today’s outputs and power needs, electrically manipulated coatings (adaptive camouflage), electric UAV catapults, more powerful sonars, microwave emitters, podded propulsion systems, and a host of other power gulping equipment.

 

UAV – We’ve discussed the need for large numbers of small, cheap, expendable UAV scouts to provide situational awareness for surface groups.  We’re not talking about one or two Fire Scouts, as the Navy is doing, but many dozens of RQ-21 Blackjack-ish UAVs.  Thus, a ship would need the ability to store, launch, recover, fuel, maintain, and control dozens of UAVs simultaneously.

 

Guns – In a peer war, we will quickly reach a point where missiles have been expended and become a rare commodity given the length of time required to build new ones.  What happens when the Navy suddenly goes from ordering 50 -100 missiles per year to needing tens of thousands per year?  The manufacturers simply won’t/don’t have the manufacturing capacity.  What does that leave?  Guns!  Large caliber naval guns!  These will be useful for anti-surface warfare, ground support, and cheap area bombardment.

 

If both sides do their job in terms of emission control and counter-recon, it becomes increasingly likely that opposing forces will, literally, stumble across each other at short range or that initial longer range combat will devolve into short range combat (see, “Future Naval Battle”).  Large caliber guns will rule the day, at that point.

 

AAW – We’ve demonstrated that the most likely AAW scenario will involve horizon range and closer engagements which points to the need for extensive close/medium range missile defense in the form of ESSM and lots of CIWS/SeaRAM.  The close in CIWS/SeaRAM requirement, in particular, needs to be greatly increased over the current Navy practice of one or two units per ship.  We need to mount a minimum of six and, preferably, eight to ten or more units per ship.

 

EW/ECM – History has proven that electronic AAW defense is the most effective form of missile defense, as demonstrated in the data in Hughes’ book (Fleet Tactics and Coastal Combat).  Every ship needs extensive Electronic Warfare/Electronic Countermeasure capabilities including the ability to conduct tailored, active emission defense.  With a slight nod to the underwhelming SLQ-32/SEWIP, the Navy’s electronic defenses are a joke.  We also need to give serious thought to a dedicated EW/ECM escort ship.

 

Armor – Nothing could be more obvious than the requirement for extensive armor to mitigate damage and losses.  The cost and time frame for replacement of lost ships absolutely demands that we build ships as robustly as possible.  We need to return to the WWII standard of armoring, as a minimum starting point, and then begin a desperate research program to upgrade armor concepts to modern technological standards and methods.

 

While we noted above that large caliber naval guns are needed, it is not enough to simply have a gun, even if it’s a large caliber gun.  It must be in an armored gun mount.  Otherwise, a gun will be quickly disabled in combat due to simple shrapnel damage, even without a direct hit.  In WWII, designers ensured that the gun mounts were heavily armored because they recognized that a ship with a disabled gun was useless.

 

 

 

In the same vein, there are some things that are contraindicated in our generic ship design requirements:

 

VLS – VLS is good, to a point.  However, the desire for ever larger numbers of VLS cells is unproductive.  We’ve demonstrated that beyond a certain point, extra VLS cells are of no use and simply wasteful of ship’s volume, add cost, and risk the loss of expensive, unexpended missiles when the ship is sunk.  No one believes a Burke can withstand more than a couple of hits without sinking (no armor, limited damage control due to limited manning, etc.) so whatever unexpended missiles are in unused VLS cells will be lost.  That’s very expensive missile inventory literally going down the drain.  VLS cell numbers should be sharply limited, appropriate to the type of ship.

 

Superstructures – Large superstructures are detrimental to ship’s functions (loss of deck space), add top weight (instability), and increase the ship’s radar and IR signatures despite stealth shaping.  See, “Ship Superstructures”.

 

Minimal Manning – We have more than enough proof that minimal manning is a disaster in terms of maintenance and it will be even more of a disaster in combat as we will lack bodies to replace the dead and wounded and to conduct damage control.

 

 

 

Summary

 

We see then, that we can readily identify characteristics that are likely to be requirements for future naval designs.  Of course, not all of the identified characteristics will be appropriate for every ship type and most will be applied on a proportional basis depending on type.  Still, that gives an idea of what future ship designs should be moving towards.  I leave it to you to compare the Navy’s current trend towards small, unarmored, marginally stealthy, almost defenseless vessels to our anticipated requirements.  What we quickly realize is that the Navy’s path seems to lead in the opposite direction from a robust, powerful, survivable, hard to sink, ship with lots of firepower.  How the Navy thinks that opposite direction will win wars is, frankly, beyond me.

 

Even at the higher end – meaning large, manned ships - the Navy’s surface warship design concepts seem wedded to some hybrid of Burkes and Zumwalts;  Burkes because they can’t let go of the past and Zumwalts because … ah … they … I got nothin’.

 

So, even without a detailed CONOPS, we can anticipate and produce a decent WARship by understanding the trends in combat technology.  The Navy, on the other hand …


33 comments:

  1. Thank you for pointing out CONOPS, CONOPS, CONOPS the most important thing in ship design. Every one of the failed ships you mentions suffered from not having a CONOPS - other than a power point wish list of capabilities.

    In trying to write a CONOPS though the most point we have forgotten is what you allude to - ships will get taken out. Damaged and rendered ineffective at least, sunk at worst. The Navy does not seem to be able to recognize this fact. No matter how technologically advanced you try to make a ship the enemy will find a way to damage or sink it. No tank, no airplane, or ship has never been immune to loss. Even the Israeli Air Force had losses with their huge combat kill ratio, just as the Japanese had against the Russian fleets (easy to run up the score against poorly trained opponents).

    So get over never losing a ship. John Paul Jones in his most famous battle won but lost his ship.

    You make an excellent point on the VLS cells. Rather than put all of your missiles in the few hulls you have that will only expend half of their missiles before getting sunk, think of smaller loads (meaning possibly smaller cheaper ships) that will require an at sea reload capability or enough ships so that you can rotate them back to base to get reloaded.

    So a ship CONOPS can even impact and drive the Navy's infrastructure capabilities and CONOPS. Unfortunately, this requires a holistic approach across all of the Navies (SPAWAR, NavSea, NavAir, CNIC, etc.) which will require a CNO with the drive and vision of a King, Nimitz, or Rickover.

    But just because it is hard does not mean we don't have to do it. CONOPS, CONPS, CONOPS.

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    1. "a ship CONOPS can even impact and drive the Navy's infrastructure capabilities"

      Bingo!

      A great example of the Navy failing to recognize this was the original intent to conduct the LCS maintenance using shore support. The Navy built the ships but never built the LCS maintenance support infrastructure and the concept failed.

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    2. "CONOPS" "wish list of capabilities"

      The Navy has substituted lists of capabilities for CONOPS just as they've substituted technology for strategy.

      Astute comment all around!

      Delete
  2. It sure seems like the Navy lost its way as the end of the Cold War came along, or even somewhat before. Up until then, there seemed to be pretty good ideas about future warfare, how itd be conducted, and how to go about it. There seemed to be CONOP considerations for ship classes. The end of WWII and the dethroning of the battleship did open the gates for ship design to stray into the failure zone though, as prewar designs of many navies followed the "response to a response" formula, which generally was a never ending "one-upping" of rivals, and that was true for most ship types. Post-war, that "direct response building" tapered off and navies began chasing novel designs and technology became a bigger driver. The US headed down the exquisite technology road, and the Soviets went for numbers and weapons density. Looking at the Slavas, Udaloys, and Sovremmnys, and comparing them to US contemporaries shows how far apart design and CONOP had deviated. To be fair, carrier aviation was our centerpiece, which they didnt have in a meaningful way, so the CONOPs were vastly different due to differences in how war was to be carried out. But long story short, I think our lack of weapons density, offensive and defensive, and intelligent ship design has been on a downward spiral for half a century. Now, there is nobody in leadership positions that can even remember properly thought out designs and CONOPS. Those folks are old retirees or have passed away. The hubris of the peace dividend era and transformationalism was a fate-sealer and recovering from all that is still an uphill battle that we arent winning.

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    1. The US surface fleet in the cold war was geared towards last resort convoy escort to protect the troops going to Europe through the USSR's sub fleet survivors who got through the USN's sub fleet with a secondary mission of protecting from aircraft during the finale stretch.

      Look at how few anti-aircraft missile ships the USN had until the late 70's. The Tico's and Burke's today vastly outnumber the number of new missile ships in service in the cold war because the threat changed from relatively close torpedo attacks to swarms of long range cruise missiles.

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    2. "The hubris of the peace dividend era and transformationalism was a fate-sealer and recovering from all that is still an uphill battle that we arent winning."

      This is what collapsing empires look like.

      We need to get our heads screwed on right darn quick, and not just the Navy.

      Lutefisk

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  3. I think its pretty foolish to scale down the gun armament on a surface combatant. One mount fore and one mount aft. Was the Ford-class CVN really necessary, especially with all that new technology? In terms of warfighting capability, how much more capability does the Mk-41 VLS offer over the Mk-26 twin arm launcher?

    Does anyone have an explanation as to why the FREMM design was chosen for the FFG(X) and not something like the UK frigate (sorry the Type number is eluding me)?

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    1. The FFG(X) requirement was for an in-service base design. The Type 26 isn't in service yet.

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    2. "how much more capability does the Mk-41 VLS offer over the Mk-26 twin arm launcher? "

      We've addressed this in this post: "VLS Versus Arm Launchers"

      We've also addressed the combat value of the Ford (or lack thereof) many times. Feel free to check out the archives.

      Delete
    3. "The FFG(X) requirement was for an in-service base design."

      Yep. And then they modified it anyway so the ship's entry to the fleet will be in 2030 or so.
      Dumbasses.

      Delete
  4. Without going into politics, I think even before CONOPS which do need with urgency, I see the problem as since the end of Cold War, what is the role of USN? When it was US vs Soviets, it was somewhat easy but let's face it, US services and especially USN seems to have been at a loss of what to do ever since fall of Berlin wall.

    Throwing sh#t on the wall to see what sticks has been the strategy....probably need lot better than that to move forward. We really need a national debate with serious discussions and stick to it, not something that seems to change ever couple of years....IMO, even the whole "let's face China" seems more like a budget grab than a reasoned response to geopolitics.

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    1. Excellent point. A strategy is the context in which a CONOPS fits or supports. If your strategy is coastal defense, then a CONOPS describing how a Carrier will be utilized does not fit when land-based aircraft will suffice.

      Just as the Navy has substituted capability lists for CONOPS, so has strategy been degraded to a list of undefined or poorly defined buzz words. For example: What does Naval power projection really mean?

      Until this is fixed you are right it is hard to tell if a CONOPS is good. But this post is about how CONOPS are critical to building ships. IMO you are looking at the higher level/bigger picture. Both are desperately needed.

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  5. In the immediate aftermath of the Cold War, the Navy's primary consideration was to preserve it's budget slice. That IMO led away from strategy and CONOPS since it wasn't obvious at the time that we needed to escort convoys or protect sea lanes. And saying we're going to build 30 ocean ASW escorts seemed to be just inviting people to mockingly ask you "to protect us from what...?".

    The GWOT didn't help matters any as the Navy felt it was up competing with SOCOM and the USAF strike capability for budget $$$. This was stupid IMO because, if nothing else, the Navy was the logical force to assume the nuclear deterrent mission using SSBNs.

    I suspect that the Navy has basically raised a generation of leaders who aren't used to CONOPS or strategy, and are more fixated on what I would describe as conngressional marketing to retain their budget. Which is ironic, since this was the primary strategic failure that led to the Japanese defeat in WW2. (IJA was focused on Russia, IJN on the USN)

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  6. Aren't power and stealth sort of mutually exclusive, unless you're willing to break the bank?

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    1. Take the Zumwalt for example.
      It's supposed to have very good radar stealth but it also generates something like 75MW of (net, I assume) power.
      Unless they used some fancy expensive technology, the heat bloom should be really big.

      Delete
    2. Are you referring to the turbine exhaust air? My very vague understanding is that the exhaust is 'chilled' although I've never seen a description of what that means. I assume it means that cooler, ambient air is mixed with the hotter exhaust but that's purely speculation on my part.

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  7. Could a UAV be designed to fit in a VLS cell? the Mark 41 allows quad packed ESSM's so designing a UAV with folding/extending wings into the size profile of an ESSM would allow the carrying of a lot of UAV's especially across a fleet and would put the large numbers of VLS to use especially if they missile armament was reduced as you say it should.

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  8. Two characteristics not mentioned are range and endurance. Characteristics you want in a ship intended to operate in the Pacific. And, characteristics the Navy appears to recognize as USNI reports, "The Navy is also calling for a ship that can travel 50 percent farther and spend 120 percent longer time on station. The plan also calls for a 25 percent reduction in fuel usage compared to the DDG-51 and reduced requirement for the Navy combat logistics fleet."

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    1. " range and endurance"

      Those are desirable characteristics, for sure, but this design discussion was focused specifically on combat characteristics. Range and endurance, along with maintainability, fuel efficiency, standardization of parts, judicious automation, and many other factors are somewhat more secondary relative to a combat-specific consideration.

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  9. The acting Navy Secretary Thomas Harker said in June Navy has only has enough money to develop either a new next-generation fighter, destroyer or submarine and will have to pick only one platform to invest in, understand in response the Navy plan is to take an axe to the current surface fleet in FY2023 budget due for release in April, assuming it will be scrapping more Ticos, LCS and maybe the Burke Flight Is? to save big money on the O&M budget. No sign the Navy growing the fleet numbers even to the arbitrary Congress target number of 355, just the opposite of CNO future ship design philosophy eg the new DDG(X) destroyer requirements shown at the SNS2022 symposium larger and CRS estimates and ~50% more costly than a Burke, previously revealed the SSN(X) expected to be twice the cost of a $3.4 billion Virginia Block V.

    On the O&M budget maintenance which understand approximately costs three times the original procurement cost of ship/submarine through its life. The FY2022 budget estimates for Operation and Maintenance, shows 55 ships and submarines in for depot maintenance at $3,532 million, 5 carriers - $392 million, 10 submarines - $1,851 million and 40 conventional powered ships- $1,289 millions, would note none of the conventionally powered ships will use a nuclear public shipyard for its depot maintenance, all private whereas CVNs and submarines use both public and private shipyards. The cost of the mid-life CVN RCOH is not funded from O&M but SCN, FY 2022 request $2,456 million. So nuclear ships and submarine depot maintenance totals $4,699 million 72.5% vs conventional $1,289 million 27.5%, E&EO :) My view contrary to CNOs is why continue procuring nuclear CVNs when so expensive to procure and maintain and not conventionally powered carriers. With submarines would note 50 SSN's in fleet and we have the infamous example of the Los Angeles USS Boise in for maintenance and will take 8 years before finally returning to fleet in 2023, why due to lack of nuclear dockyards capacity and the priority for Ohio's and CVN's maintenance at the four nuclear public shipyards. Out of interest IJN can fund fleet of 30 SSKs vs Navy 50 SSNs, both China and Russia build both SSKs and SSNs.

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  10. In brief an autonomous ship with a crew. The crew do engagement permission, local ship security, ship boarding, and fix stuff. It is 600 tons and has heaps of guns and missiles. It only has civilian navigation radar.

    Fortunately, there is an alternative ready today. The Naval Postgraduate School has spent decades studying these small surface combatants and refining their design, and is ready to build relevant warships today. The latest iteration of small surface combatant design, the Lightly Manned Autonomous Combat Capability (LMACC), achieves the Navy’s autonomy goals while providing a far superior platform at a lower cost and shorter turnaround time. Where the LUSV design is large, unstealthy, and poorly defended, the LMACC has a very low profile, aggressive stealth shaping, SeaRAM, and a full-sized AN/SLQ-32 electronic warfare suite designed to defend destroyers, making it extremely difficult to identify, target, and hit. While the LUSV concept is armed with VLS cells, LMACC would carry the most lethal anti-ship missile in the world, LRASM, as well as a wide range of other weapons to let it fulfill diverse roles like anti-swarm and surface fire support, something that cannot be done with LUSV’s less diverse arsenal. To maximize its utility in the gray zone, the LMACC design boasts some of the best launch facilities in the world for a ship of its size.

    On the manning front, LMACC has a clearly defined and legally unambiguous plan with a permanent crew of 15, who would partner with the ship’s USV-based autonomous capabilities and team with a variety of other unmanned platforms. This planned 15-person crew is complemented by 16 spare beds for detachments, command staff, special forces, or EABO Marines to maximize flexibility, and also hedges against the unexpected complications with automated systems which caused highly publicized problems for LCS.

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  11. LMACC was designed with the vast distances of the Pacific in mind, so it has the range needed for effective sorties from safe ports and provisions to carry additional fuel bladders when even more range is needed. Unlike the LUSV concept which Congress has rightly pushed back on, LMACC is a lethal, survivable, flexible, and conceptually sound design ready to meet our needs today.

    and

    Minimum Requirements for a Small American Warship

    Based on the above discussion and a few common practices, the list below provides a reasonable set of approximate minimum requirements for any small American warship. Note that this is not our final design, but a simplified interpretation using current technology and standard design practices:
    •Eight LRASMs
    •SeaRAM
    •Latest generation full-sized AN/SLQ-32 electronic warfare suite
    •Standard decoy launchers
    •Excellent optical sensor suite: •Visible Distributed Aperture System (DAS)
    •IR DAS
    •Visible/IR camera turret

    •Maximum affordable acoustic signature reduction
    •Appropriate reduction of other signatures to blend into civilian traffic
    •COTS navigation radar

    •Low probability of detection/intercept datalinks
    •30-knot speed (approx.)
    •7500+ nautical mile range
    •One 7m RHIB
    •Small UAV storage and launch accommodations
    •Traditional light gun armament
    •One 30mm autocannon
    •Two M2 Browning heavy machine guns

    And Bits and pieces picked out

    The key technology that enables our layout is the unassuming Javelin Launch Tray. This adds a Javelin missile launcher to a standard pintle mounted weapon, and allows a loader/gunner team to outperform a 30mm autocannon with greater range and comparable engagement rate at greatly reduced weight and installation cost.

    Since there is no need for a traditional multi-million dollar deck gun, LMACC instead mounts a 105mm howitzer. The cased ammunition of this weapon makes it suitable for sea service, unlike the larger, separately-loaded 155mm version. As a traditionally towed artillery piece, it is a lightweight, low cost weapon ideally suited to land attack. This of course addresses longstanding concerns about naval gunfire, and is directly relevant to supporting the Marines.

    These two remaining requirements are both addressed through the addition of Spike NLOS missiles. This allows small surface threats to be safely engaged from over the horizon, and allows armored vehicles and other point targets to be precisely eliminated as well. This complements the howitzer and Javelin to provide excellent anti-boat capabilities and robust fire support for Marines ashore.

    The final weapon system is the Miniature Hit-To-Kill (MHTK) missile, which provides additional defense against low-end aerial threats like small UAVs and rockets. This further improves survivability, especially against swarming threats, and ensures the air defense capabilities of a deck gun are fully replicated.

    The baseline LMACC variant, the Shrike, has already been discussed, and two additional variants have been fleshed out, the anti-aircraft Falcon and the anti-submarine Osprey, both of which add new capabilities with a ten-foot hull extension.

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  12. It is difficult to discuss the details of the Falcon’s operation publicly, but it adds a new sensor and a tactical-length Mk 41 VLS module to destroy hostile maritime patrol aircraft before they can distinguish it from civilian traffic. This will protect these ships from the single greatest threat to them, hostile aircraft, and substantially improve their ability to operate within hostile A2/AD systems.

    The Osprey variant, on the other hand, is relatively simple and is built to maximize the impact of USV-mounted sensors. The primary addition is eight new angled launch cells for Tomahawk cruise missiles modified to carry a lightweight torpedo. This allows a very small number of these ships to greatly improve our ability to deter and defeat submarines, since they can quickly strike targets detected by offboard sensors from hundreds of miles away. Furthermore, since Tomahawk is a well-established weapon fielded across the fleet, this will allow us to add this capability across our surface combatant fleet, and provide a way to recycle obsolete Tomahawks when we inevitably move on to other weapons. Finally, this variant is rounded out by a hull-mounted passive sonar and four fixed torpedo tubes for self-defense, since it is expected to operate in areas with elevated submarine risk.

    Two additional variants have been considered. The first is a drone mothership which adds a UUV handling module to field large numbers of UUVs, and may also modify the aft launch bay to carry two boats or USVs. The second is a coast guard variant which replaces most of the missiles with a dedicated sickbay, brig, and secure contraband storage to turn it into a bigger, more capable version of the Sentinel-class cutter, although these capabilities could also be added in a hull segment if an export customer wants to retain the missiles.

    From https://cimsec.org/two-platforms-for-two-missions-the-missile-magazine-unmanned-undersea-vessel-and-lmacc/ and https://cimsec.org/lifting-the-veil-on-the-lightly-manned-surface-combatant/

    An interesting concept. The 105mm should make Cmd Chip very happy.

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  13. I think the problem runs deeper.

    We need to recognize that military forces (including navies) exist to fight--and win--wars, and to present such a formidable obstacle that others choose not to engage us in wars. They win those wars by killing bad people and breaking their toys. Warheads on foreheads.

    We haven't fought a war to win since WWII. Not really. Yes, we may technically have "won" a few like Grenada and some skirmishes in the desert. But we haven't fought a peer to win, and we haven't even won those as convincingly as we should have.

    In the ongoing battle between warriors and paper shufflers, the paper shufflers are winning, as is normal in peacetime, and the limited wars we have fought should have taught us:
    1) Never fight a war you don't intend to win, and
    2) Paper shufflers make horrible wartime commanders.

    So, it seems to me that what we need to do is start by figuring out what the next war is apt to be, how we would plan win it, what it would take to implement the plan, and then reality check and adjust the plan with realistic boots-on-the-ground training.

    And all the while, keep in mind that the next war is very likely to be the one we don't prepare for, so we need to retain some flexibility. For example, in a nuclear exchange, the SSBNs would be about all that matters, but they are pretty much useless in any other kind of combat.

    I don't think the people in charge are capable of thinking this way. They are paper-shufflers who got more reports in on time than anyone else.

    I think their inadequacies would show pretty quickly if we tasked them as follows:
    1) Determine what our next war is apt to be
    2) Develop a plan to win it
    3) Figure out what resources (ships, airplanes, weapons, logistics) we need to implement that plan
    4) Put together a realistic live exercise to test the plan
    5) Make corrections as dictated by live exercise results.

    That's basically what the Fleet Problems between WWI and WWII were. We identified an enemy (Japan), figured out what war with them would look like, developed strategy and tactics to win that war, tested various parts of that plan, and then executed that plan after Pearl Harbor.

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    1. @CDR. I think one issue is the excessive security about exercises, war games simulations, etc....there's as far as I know, very little disclosure to the public and open to discussion. I read some articles on Fleet Problems and it was fascinating to see how much was talked openly and not buried under tons of top secret.

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    2. Exactly...!!! Again, the answers to our problems are readily available if we'd just look back!!

      Delete
  14. I have long considered the Fairey Swordfish a model for how a considered CONOPS can make a simple design effective. Much-beloved and derided for it's primitive construction, understanding it's CONOPS is important when judging it.

    The UK assumed their few carriers would be operating within flying range of the European coast and outnumbered by enemy planes. This drove their choice of carrier armour over plane capacity. But it also drove the Swordfish's design.

    Before a war where night-time carrier operations were not generally done, the Swordfish was conceived, designed and operated to take-off, form up, navigate, locate, attack, return and land. But what tends to be forgotten was that it was to be able to do all this at night. At night in rain and strong winds. In 1936. A monoplane couldn't do that in 1936, hence the biplane design.

    There were of course reasons why the IJN and USN favoured daytime operations. The Swordfish was not the war-winning weapon the massed USN carrier fleets were. In clear weather it was extremely vulnerable. The rest of the 1930's UK naval aircraft designs were terrible, so one could argue that the Swordfish's design being successful was a case of getting it right by accident or having no alternative. It's continued service until 1945 came from being adequate for ASW work and being able to fly from almost anything, in almost any weather conditions a U-boat could attack in. Being able to attack at night wasn't by itself enough when better replacements came along.

    But in favourable conditions the Swordfish could attack a target whose location was known to some extent, in weather conditions bad enough to render defending AA and fighters very ineffective. It was the stealth bomber of the 1930's.

    The bad-weather attack on the Bismarck and the nighttime attack on the Taranto anchorage were by successful by design and later implementation, not luck. The Swordfish was effective in those particular circumstances because it had been designed to be effective in those situations, when an enemy's defences were weakest.

    It is easy (and occasionally fun) to look back at the past in good humour. But with possible naval futures including widespread ECM and ESM rendering EMCON the name of the game, there may well again be gaps in effective detection big enough to fly an expendable bad-weather capable system through. The above is history, but while history doesn't repeat, it can certainly rhyme.

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  15. Sounds like the new CNO destroyer, modified by a proper conops, could look similar to the refitted Iowa Battleship, except with smaller guns. It had 4 x Phalanxs, could fire Harpoons and Tomahawks, had current sensors. It also had the famous battleship armour, and had a range of nearly 15,000nm, while weighing about 56-57000 tons.

    Even if no new gun types are introduced, having, say, 4-6 x 5 inch guns is a vast improvement over just 1, for both firepower and redundancy.

    Anyway, we all know we're just going to get a longer , stealthy sided non armoured, short ranged ship again :(

    Andrew

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  16. ComNavOps,

    You wrote "(see, ‘Future Naval Battle’).” Assuming the confrontation you describe takes place on the high seas, away from land-based air cover (which some engagements will if China and/or Russia really build blue water navies), and following CAPT Wayne Hughes's dictum that first to attack effectively has a huge advantage, it seems to me that we want:

    - Detection at longer range than they can detect us. In WWII, radar and sonar gave us an advantage.
    - Longer range weapons, and more of them. In WWII, Long Lance gave the Japanese an advantage.
    - Superior guns, once the fight degenerates into a gun battle.

    Two of the high end pieces to my high/low approach have been developed with those objectives in mind.

    1) Battlecarrier, based on the 1980s concept (1), which had 2x3 16-inch guns, port and starboard angled flight decks with ski jumps, and 320 VLS cells. I would propose a single longer port side flight deck, like Kiev with a ski jump. The air det would include about 10 F35Bs and about 10 helos. Those could be very useful for scouting and detection. They would be no match for a supercarrier air wing, but all the supercarriers are ours. I would propose to convert a number of the VLS cells for hypersonic/supersonic anti-ship cruise missiles and/or land attack IRBMs/SRBMs. Assuming a 4-to-1 ratio (which seems reasonable) 32 such larger missiles would leave 192 Mk41-type VLS cells, which could be a mix of ESSM quad packs, NSM, Standard, and perhaps VL-ASROC (if the ship carried sonar). The number of larger versus smaller cells/missiles could be adjusted. When everybody runs out of missiles, the 16-inch guns provide a huge advantage in a gunfight. Finally, to save weight and provide better defense against air/missile attack, I would replace the 6-inch and smaller guns with 4-6 SeaRAM and 8-12 PHALANX. It would carry TRS-3D/4D radar.
    2) Cruiser, based on the WWII flight deck cruiser concept (2), which had 2x3 6-inch guns and a 400-foot flight deck. I would go with a somewhat larger Des Moines hull (716 feet versus 640 feet). I would go with 2x3 8-inch guns since Des Moines was obviously big enough to carry them. Between the gun mounts and the forward and aft ends of the flight deck, I would put 192 VLS cells (96 forward/96 aft). As with the battlecarrier, I would swap out some for longer-range anti-ship and land attack missiles. Again assuming a 4-to-1 tradeoff, 16 hypersonic/supersonic/IRBM/SRBM cells would leave 128 Mk41s, with a mix of ESSM quad packs, Standard, NSM, and VL-ASROC. The flight deck would be used for 2-3 helos plus a large number and variety of UAVs. There would be a hangar underneath the flight deck with the ability to carry about 100 small UAVs, plus 2-3 medium USVs and UUVs, which could be launched/recovered over the side. Cruisers would have AEGIS radar and hull mounted sonar.

    On all ships, I would replace the trainable Mk32 torpedo tubes (which are all but impossible to reload underway, much less in combat) with fixed tubes (like the Knoxes) originating in a submarine-like torpedo room with around 20 or so spares and reloading equipment. Instead of having all 12.75” (324 mm) tubes, I would have stacked tubes both port and starboard, with a 12.75”/324mm tube on top and a 21”/533mm tube below. This would require the Navy to develop or adapt a large torpedo for surface ship use, but that would seem to me to be a very useful weapon.

    In the context of the battle that you foresee in the referenced post, the battlecarrier and cruiser would provide longer detection range (with F35Bs, helos, and UAVs), more and better missiles (assuming the Navy finally gets on the stick with missile development), and massive superiority in the ending gun battle.

    (1) https://warisboring.com/the-battlecarrier-was-part-battleship-part-aircraft-carrier/
    (2) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cb/Flight_deck_cruiser_design_CF-2_31_Jan_1940.jpg

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    Replies
    1. "away from land-based air cover"

      One of my foundational assumptions is that in a peer war (China, obviously), both side's air forces will be busy battling for aerial supremacy and, therefore, unavailable for providing cover and support for naval forces other than in a sporadic, haphazard fashion.

      Obviously, if you're trying to mount an operation involving naval forces, you'll try to assemble air support but the enemy will be trying to counter and negate that support so the 'support' effort will devolve into an air superiority battle and the naval force will be left to fend for itself.

      Of course, if you can either arrange for, or achieve, air superiority, then your naval force will likely succeed in its mission. If you can't, then it's just naval force against naval force and the scenario in this post applies.

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    2. In any kind of war that I can imagine, China (and/or Russia) would have a need to exert some form of blue-water naval power away from sore-based air and beyond the range of A2/AD. In those areas, I would expect the kind of naval force versus naval force encounters that your earlier post described, and I would expect a USN SAG/HUK task group comprised of a battlecarrier, ASW helo carrier, and escort squadron led by a cruiser would pretty much overpower anything the bad guys can put up against it in such a struggle. Of course, to make that a reality the navy as to come up with better missiles, bigger guns, a large anti-surface (could also be anti-sub) torpedo, plus the sip types to employ them, and that effort won't allow for any more Fords or Zumwalts or LCSs along the way.

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    3. Long story short, I think what I'm proposing is a force that would be well nigh unbeatable in the battle scenario that you postulated in your earlier post (which I think is a reasonable possibility) and would be a potent force in many other scenarios.

      Bottom line--The USN needs to get away from its fascination with shiny new technology and ask itself:
      - What kind(s) of war(s) are we apt to find ourselves in?
      - What would be our strategies and tactics for winning them?
      - What ships and other equipment do we need to execute those strategies and tactics?
      - Have we proved those concepts with realistic boots-on-the-ground opposed battle simulation exercises?

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