Monday, July 15, 2024

Warship or Cruise Ship?

ComNavOps has long pointed out that our ships are cruise ships rather than warships.  Let’s check in and see what the latest is on that …
 
When the aircraft carrier USS Abraham Lincoln (CVN-72) pulls away from its California berth for its upcoming deployment, the crew will embark with some homey creature comforts.
 
Comforts like cushy club chairs by an electric fireplace, reliable WIFI, a gaming room, a stadium-seating movie theater. There are also phones, a pair of teal-blue rotary dial phones [with] plain old telephone system lines, are tucked into two enclosed, sound-proofed booths.
 
Those amenities are features of the new fully renovated library and lounge, courtesy of the USO, that have taken over three spaces of the Lincoln’s command religious ministries department. Each space is softened by teal bulkheads, wood laminated flooring, wood accents and artificial plants with steam punk-styled and contemporary artwork of the former Abraham Lincoln dress the walls.
 
“What the Abraham Lincoln USO Center offers is a peaceful and modern respite for our sailors and Marines to rest and recharge and to reach their families while using wifi while at sea, to watch movies in legitimate movie theater seating, and play video games in a purposefully designed video game room,” Capt. Pete Riebe, Lincoln’s commander, said during a Monday ceremony on the carrier’s flight deck.[1]

 
Is this just a one-off experiment on the Lincoln?  No …
 
The newly named USO Center is the fifth to open aboard a Navy aircraft carrier, officials said, and similar redos of library and lounge spaces aboard four more carriers are planned this year.[1]
 
This is reprehensible as a matter of survivability, if for no other reason.  Recall that during the McCain and Fitzgerald collisions, sailors died because escape paths were blocked by loose debris.  Every item not directly related to combat is a survival liability.  We are knowingly and intentionally jeopardizing sailors lives.  Sure, everyone wants a cushy video-gaming lounge right up until you have to evacuate a flooding compartment and large overstuffed pillows and furniture are blocking your way.  Today, every ship is a moment away from combat and critical survival situations.  It is long past time to strip ship and recognize that a ship is supposed to be a WARship not a cruise ship.  Any sailor who won’t serve because they don’t have access to lounges, a movie theater, over-stuffed chairs, etc. is not a sailor worth having.
 
On a personal note, I’m torn between a luxury cruise to the Caribbean or a US Navy aircraft carrier cruise for my vacation this year.  I like the Caribbean destination but the aircraft carrier has better amenities.  It’ll be a tough choice.
 
 
 
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[1]USNI News website, “Carrier USS Abraham Lincoln’s Latest Upgrade Dials Up Crew Comfort”, Gidget Fuentes, 11-Jul-2024,
https://news.usni.org/2024/07/11/carrier-uss-abraham-lincolns-latest-upgrade-dials-up-crew-comfort
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22 comments:

  1. deariemeJuly 15, 2024 at 6:13 AM

    Is this decadent stuff intended to make it easier to recruit young people into the navy? Will it work? Even if it works, will it have attracted the right sort of recruits?

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    1. ComNavOpsJuly 15, 2024 at 8:18 AM

      "Even if it works, will it have attracted the right sort of recruits?"

      We already know the answer to that. Aside from pure common sense which assures us that no one who would join for comfort reasons is anyone we would want, we've already seen the answer to this play out during the Vietnam war. Instead of bribes and comforts to entice people to join, we used the draft. The result was that the military became a haven for misfits, drug users, and malcontents. Today, with lowered standards, acceptance of past drug use, dropping education requirements, and the use of comfort bribes, why would we expect that the results would be any different from Vietnam? We'll be taking in people who aren't properly motivated, aren't dedicated to the service of the country, and have other 'masters' such as drugs, games, and money.

      You ask the right question but we (everyone but the military leadership) already know the answer.

      Delete
    2. CDR ChipJuly 17, 2024 at 10:42 PM

      Should the focus be on getting the numbers we want, or on wanting the sailors we get?

      Delete
  2. RyanKCJuly 15, 2024 at 6:13 AM

    Who has time for this? I lived aboard a CVN for 3 1/2 years and worked 16 hour days at sea (8 hour watch in the EW Module, 8 hours maintenance and other duties).

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    1. ComNavOpsJuly 15, 2024 at 8:23 AM

      I've addressed this repeatedly. We should abolish deployments and revert to home ported training and maintenance with occasional SHORT TERM missions. Any time at sea should be packed with actual mission work or intensive training. No one should have time or energy for games, movies, or whatever other comfort activities the Navy is sponsoring (a past article on Pride rodeos aboard a carrier comes to mind).

      If you're not training to exhaustion, then you're wasting your time at sea, clearly don't have a compelling purpose to be at sea, and shouldn't have left port.

      Delete
  3. G2milJuly 15, 2024 at 8:50 AM

    Luxuries are just stupid for amphibs. Why does anyone think amphibious ships must patrol on long deployments? Once the Marines have trained up and forward deployed on ship, they should spend most of their time in ports, saving fuel and improving morale.

    Here is my article on this showing todays amphibs carry less than a quarter of what World War II amphibs carried for their size:

    https://www.g2mil.com/Devo-Amphibs.htm

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    1. G2milJuly 15, 2024 at 9:05 AM

      Part of the problem is that Navy officers aboard amphibs are surface warfare officers who want to patrol and demand weaponry for their ships. They also get the same "steaming days" expectations per quarter as warships even though the are transports. So slash their steaming days in half and consider a new amphib warfare officer field with a different training path like attending the Marine's amphibious warfare school. So a new commander for an amphib task force will have a decade of experience aboard amphibs and working with Marines instead of a commodore with a decade aboard destroyers.

      Delete
    2. CDR ChipJuly 17, 2024 at 11:06 PM

      My four years active were spent one year in destroyers, two years in mine warfare, and one year in amphibs. The fact that the USN was dramatically downsizing in the aftermath of Vietnam contributed to a lot of moving around. Anyway, they were three different navies, and required very different officer perspectives. Sweeps and amphibs could be combined in a brown-water or green-water navy concept, very different from blue-water cruiser-destroyer-carrier concepts.

      Delete
  4. ComNavOpsJuly 15, 2024 at 10:33 AM

    "I saw the USNI article and immediately thought"

    This comment was deleted for rudeness and personal attacks. That you disagreed with me is irrelevant. Feel free to repost it in a respectful and polite tone and your comment will stand.

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  5. AnonymousJuly 15, 2024 at 11:36 AM

    Can someone explain to me where this has anything to do with recruiting? None of the Navy quotes or the articles mention recruiting as a goal. The USO provides services to active duty personnel - they don't recruit. If you think this has something to do with recruiting, ok, but it's not unreasonable to ask for some evidence for that. In these comments so far, I don't find any.

    Beyond that: kids don't need to enlist to go play video games. They can do that already, anytime, in basically any job (and without a job). I know young kids can be swayed, but I'm just not buying that "oh and you can play video games" is going to pull in anyone who wasn't already interested. Kids can be dumb, but they aren't THAT dumb....

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    1. ComNavOpsJuly 15, 2024 at 2:36 PM

      "Can someone explain to me where this has anything to do with recruiting?"

      Seriously? I think it's pretty obvious. Recruiters are going to offer amenities and comforts as an inducement to potential recruits. Whether the Navy intended these comforts to be a direct connection to recruiting or not doesn't alter the fact that they are one of many factors for a potential recruit to consider.

      That said, I think comforts are more likely to impact retention. A sailor who has enjoyed movies, games, libraries, art, etc. is more likely to re-up.

      All of that said, the impact on recruiting/retention is irrelevant. The comforts are an abomination simply due to the negative impact on survivability. Beyond that, they obviously have a negative impact on cost and space (always at a premium in a warship).

      Delete
    2. AnonymousJuly 16, 2024 at 3:08 AM

      There will always be kids who want to be SEALs, or Green Berets, or fighter pilots or astronauts, or who want to work for the FBI or whatever.
      But mostly Gen Z-ers and Millennials have no interest whatsoever in serving in the military, and filling the tens of thousands of tedious and run of the mill jobs that make the whole thing work, as has been confirmed by multiple surveys and polls.
      For reasonably smart school and college leavers who are eligible to enlist (ie no serious criminal background and no serious drug habits) a career in the military isn’t even on the radar screen.
      What’s the solution?
      A major boost in pay, benefits and allowances would probably work to an extent.
      Reducing the already poor and uncompetitive conditions of service relative to what’s available to them in the civilian economy, and cutting out the pretty minimal creature comforts aboard ship probably wouldn’t assist but rather make things worse.

      Delete
    3. ComNavOpsJuly 16, 2024 at 7:50 AM

      "There will always be kids who want to be SEALs"

      What the military is failing to do is understand WHY this is a true statement. The answer is because there are always people who want a challenge and the special forces are one such challenge.

      This understanding also explains why interest in the military has plummeted. The military has removed the challenges from service. We've adopted a posture of subservience and appeasement. We've adopted a culture of zero-defect mentality. We've prioritized woke values over duty and honor. We've removed the ability to enjoy liberty calls. We've removed confrontation with our enemies. We've dumbed down the physical qualifications. We're too often promoting based on diversity ratios instead of pure performance. And so on.

      The challenge of service is gone. The young people who are looking for challenges are, quite understandably, looking elsewhere.

      "What’s the solution?"

      It's not pay. It's not bonuses. It's not video game lounges. The solution is to restore challenges. If we do that, recruiting will take care of itself.

      Once upon a time, the Marines understood this and their recruiting 'pitch' was, essentially, that you aren't tough enough to be a Marine and they didn't want you. They were turning recruits away when they did that because there is an endless pool of people who want to rise to a MEANINGFUL challenge.

      Institute meaningful challenges and you won't have to recruit. They recruits will come begging to be let in. Laugh at them and tell them they're not tough enough to meet those challenges and you'll find them sneaking onto bases to join up and prove themselves worthy.

      There you have it ... the entire recruiting problem summed up and solved. I'm going to grab some lunch and then this afternoon, I'll solve world peace.

      Delete
  6. AnonymousJuly 15, 2024 at 12:12 PM

    A few creature comforts like a weight lifting area (on carriers I think its been tucked in a corner of the hanger), a storeroom for Steel Beach parties, etc is okay but this is ridiculous!

    Do ships still have 'gedunk stands'? Those were something like a soda fountain on the pre WW2 and wartime ships where the crew could buy soft drinks, snacks, and ice cream (when available).

    Little things like that to help with moral are fine but don't do this. All you do is coddle them.

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  7. Don McCollorJuly 15, 2024 at 4:23 PM

    Not just evacuation. There is the danger of fire. All those plush comforts sound like they would burn and smolder stubbornly releasing copious toxic smoke. On WW2 ships, even thick layers of paint would burn like a shingle factory

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    1. ComNavOpsJuly 15, 2024 at 4:49 PM

      Historically, from sailing days on up through modern times, a ship anticipating combat would 'strip ship' by removing any flammable item not directly necessary for combat. This would include amenities, floor tiles, paint and solvents, furniture, etc. Today, with the prevalence of terrorism, EVERY ship is ALWAYS a moment away from combat and a life and death survival situation. McCain/Fitzgerald sailors died due, in part, to their amenities that blocked egress from flooding compartments. How many lives are these comforts worth?

      Delete
  8. AdmiralObviousJuly 17, 2024 at 4:48 AM

    It is also a comment on culture at high levels in two ways.
    First, as bureaucrats and politicians in uniform, they simply see the Navy as just another government jobs program. Just another expansion of their personal bureaucratic fiefdoms no different than a bureaucrat writing new regulations so they can ask for more people to enforce it or pretending that a societal problem can be solved by just throwing money at it.

    Second, look at what they are replacing with this entertainment space. While I would be the first to agree the chaplaincy has diminished over the decades, let's not forget why chaplains exist in the military; because people die in combat. And dealing with the death of a comrade or facing the prospect of death yourself has a spiritual element that has been recognized since antiquity. Dealing with the threat of war means recognizing that a real leader, a real warrior knows they may be sending their subordinates--and themselves--into a situation that may kill them. Bureaucrats aren't leaders, and they aren't warriors

    ReplyDelete
  9. LonfoJuly 17, 2024 at 8:26 AM

    "On a personal note, I’m torn between a luxury cruise to the Caribbean or a US Navy aircraft carrier cruise for my vacation this year. I like the Caribbean destination but the aircraft carrier has better amenities. It’ll be a tough choice."

    Someone call the burn department for this one, hah.

    ReplyDelete
  10. AnonymousJuly 18, 2024 at 1:13 PM

    Is it sufficient to say HMS Sheffield and HMS Coventry?

    ReplyDelete
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    1. ComNavOpsJuly 18, 2024 at 2:39 PM

      No. I don't get whatever the reference is. Explain it.

      Delete
    2. AnonymousJuly 18, 2024 at 10:17 PM

      1982 Falklands War. One of the reasons that the fires on the two ships was so catastrophic after being hit was that there were too many materials used that were not sufficiently fire retardant. The lessons learnt during the Falklands are also the reason that you see images of the crews of RN ships wearing flash protection hoods and gloves when at action stations. I don't know whether the USN have the same ideas on that.

      Delete
  11. CDR ChipJuly 21, 2024 at 7:36 PM

    "Comforts like cushy club chairs by an electric fireplace, reliable WIFI, a gaming room, a stadium-seating movie theater. There are also phones, a pair of teal-blue rotary dial phones [with] plain old telephone system lines, are tucked into two enclosed, sound-proofed booths."

    Do we really need cushy chairs by an electric fireplace, a gaming room, or a stadium-seating movie theater? The mess deck(s) can serve as crew's lounges, just like old days. Movies can be shown there, and/or on closed-circuit TV in the berthing compartments. Speaking of berthing compartments, we don't need 4-person staterooms for all hands--single staterooms for CO, XO, and department heads, 2-person staterooms for junior officers, 4-person for chiefs, 12-16 person for petty officers, 32-36 for non-rated (with the unfortunate adjustments necessary to accommodate female sailors). And for God's sake include some urinals instead of requiring all flush toilets that don't work when too many flush at once. And no ship needs a walk-in ship's store. The geedunks we had in my day were plenty adequate. The absolute most that could ever be ustified would be something like the tiny street shops in Japan. Doing these things, particularly the revisions to berthing compartments, should free up a bunch of room, and allow both more weapons and sensors topside along with reduced superstructure. Move CIC/Operations Room to the main deck, like the Brits.

    I am okay with the wi-fi and the telephones (to call home I suppose) which don't take up a lot of room. I also support a full exercise area. Sailors are in bad enough shape already, and keeping them fit would definitely contribute to combat readiness. Have some light calisthenics at quarters and schedule times for all hands in the weight room.

    The only ships where anything flammable makes sense is minesweepers, that are typically made of wood (or carbon fiber) to be non-magnetic.

    ReplyDelete

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