“The
carrier strike group’s combat power is impressive, but when combined with an
Expeditionary Strike Group, like the America ESG, it is unparalleled,” said
Rear Adm. Stuart Baker, commander, Carrier Strike Group (CSG) 9. (1)
This statement demonstrates that the Admiral hasn’t got the
faintest idea of how a carrier group and an amphibious group would work
together. The reality is that they
wouldn’t! Never have, never will.
Carriers don’t operate with amphibious groups. Carriers can’t be tied to a geographic
location which is what an amphibious group must do. Carriers act to support amphibious
groups from afar – way, way afar. The carrier’s
job in an amphibious operation is to provide distant interdiction of enemy
counterattacks. The entire history of
WWII demonstrates this.
Yes, in WWII there were light/escort carriers that directly
supported the assaults by providing close air support. Today, we call those light/escort carriers
amphibious ships. The Navy, for better
or worse, has combined the functions of the light/escort carrier and the attack
transport into a single LHA/LHD. The
fleet carrier is simply not part of the amphibious group in any way, shape, or
form.
 |
| Roosevelt and America Sailing in Formation |
The Admiral is further misguided (or lying) when he states
that the combination of a carrier group’s power and an amphibious group is
‘unparalleled’. The carrier air wing
consists of around 44 Hornets plus a dozen assorted AEW, EW, tankers, and ASW
helos. The addition of the typical 6
F-35Bs that an LHA/LHD carry would add next to nothing to the aviation combat
capability of the carrier.
Similarly, the carrier has nothing to add to the ARG’s ground
combat capability. The two groups have
nothing in common, operationally, don’t operate together, and do nothing to
enhance each other’s capabilities or any mythical combined capability.
Returning to specifics, here’s what the article actually
listed as specific training evolutions during the exercise.
Assets
participated in a variety of evolutions to include air-to-air training,
steaming in formation, maneuvering, and establishing joint communications to
rapidly enable a command and control environment. (1)
Some air-to-air training is always good but the rest is just
routine sailing and talking – hardly an exercise of joint amphibious
operations. Thus, the commanders are
either complete babbling morons or they’re just spewing nonsensical garbage for
public relations purposes which is, or should be, beneath them and just makes
them look like idiots.
Admiral Baker isn’t alone in his lack of understanding about
carriers and amphibious groups. The
amphibious commander is equally misguided.
"Expeditionary
strike force operations combine the kinetic combat and 5th generation
capabilities of the America Expeditionary Strike Group with the truly
impressive air power of the Theodore Roosevelt Carrier Strike Group," said
Rear Adm. Fred Kacher, commander, Expeditionary Strike Group Seven.
"Merging our two teams into one makes the Expeditionary Strike Force
greater than the sum of our parts… (1)
As before, this Admiral also cites the combination of the
carrier’s aircraft and the amphibious group’s half dozen or so aircraft. It makes no discernible difference, Admiral!
Finally, there’s the utter idiocy that these Admirals
apparently think that one carrier and one amphibious ship somehow constitute a
viable war unit. They don’t. If we ever conduct a war time amphibious
assault, it will be with our entire amphibious fleet and several carriers
providing distant interdiction. Whether
a carrier and LHA can sail in formation is utterly irrelevant and a complete
waste of time. Sailing in
formation? Really? Is that what these pitiful excuses for
admirals think a war time operation is about?
Is sailing in formation what constitutes a combat exercise now?
What about that air-to-air training? As I said, any A2A training is good but if an
amphibious group’s F-35Bs are ever engaged in actual A2A it means that our
carriers have failed (probably sunk) to interdict enemy forces, our amphibious
aviation element is no longer supporting the ground troops, and the amphibious
group is in extreme danger and is probably in the process of being
destroyed. So, while A2A training is
never a waste of time, it would be last on the list of aviation training
evolutions for amphibious aircraft. A2A
is simply not their job and if it becomes their job, we’ve screwed up big time.
On a related note, since there are no F-35Cs deployed on
carriers, yet, who/what was the amphibious group’s F-35Bs training against? As the Air Force has already assured us, the
kill ratio for F-35s against 4th generation fighters is
infinity:0. If one believes the Air
Force, no F-35 has ever been defeated in a training exercise so what’s the
point of A2A training against carrier F-18s and vice versa?
Under different circumstances, I’d be tempted to just write
this off as a photo op and Navy spin for public relations consumption - wasteful
and pointless but harmless. However, I
truly believe that our admirals and officers think this really is legitimate
preparation for war and that’s frightening.
I believe that they think this is actually how a war will be fought: an
isolated carrier, an isolated amphibious ship or group, and, if we really need
a massive effect, a joining, in formation, of a single carrier and a single
amphibious ship. Why wouldn’t I think
this? Our Navy leadership constantly
tells us that this kind of exercise is the cutting edge of modern naval
firepower. Since none of them have ever
fought in a real naval battle, how would they know differently? They clearly haven’t studied naval history or
they wouldn’t be doing and saying these things.
We’ve grown a generation of leaders who have no idea what naval combat
is like and it shows in every exercise they conduct and every statement they
make. I take them at face value that
they are the idiots they appear to be.
(1)Commander, US Pacific Fleet website, “Theodore Roosevelt,
America strike groups conduct joint operations in 7th Fleet”, 15-Feb-2020,
https://www.cpf.navy.mil/news.aspx/130558
Ah yes, the Theodor Roosevelt. Now crippled by a CoVid-19 outbreak.
ReplyDeleteTo be fair, just performing basic seamanship has been problematic in the past.
ReplyDeletePersonally, I would have liked if they used the F35's as OPFOR and actually developed tactics for the 4th gen aircraft to deal with that type of threat.
When ever the Roosevelt becomes operational again, hopefully they can start doing more "advance" training related to modern war scenarios.
"Personally, I would have liked if they used the F35's as OPFOR and actually developed tactics for the 4th gen aircraft to deal with that type of threat."
DeleteAir Force is standing up an F-35A Aggressor squadron precisely for this mission, but the Navy hasn't said anythig about that. Maybe they'll just farm counter 5th Gen training to the Air Force.
well what would you expect from the usn in a wartime while in peacetime its intelligence (ONI "intelligence") can't see a virus coming
ReplyDeleteThere is always a virus coming. Not sure you can single out the Navy as some how bungling things worse than anyone else. Besides what would you have them do? All goto port get in quarantine for a year?
Deletelol kind of great points, beg a question what geniuses in those huge building in Fort Meade, MD and Langley, VA actually know (and do) to prevent a thousand dead daily
DeleteDefinitely a good argument for further implementation of the Unmanned Admiral program.
ReplyDeleteJust heard on the news that the Navy relived the CO of the TR after doing what he said needed to be done to protect his sailors. No good deed ever goes unpunished.
ReplyDeleteIt was expected and he probably knew that would be the outcome.
DeleteAlmost akin to resigning in protest...
Sounds like he didn't directly leak the memo but made sure distributed it around enough that it would leak...
Deletehttps://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/32871/navy-sacks-carrier-captain-pulls-another-carrier-off-station-over-covid-19-concerns
I wasn't tracking the Reagan had cases. thanks for the link.
DeleteAs for the Admiral, looking at the article and comments, I would say it sounded to me like it was more addressed to the families and generally was just good PR and not really a operational document of operations.
ReplyDeleteWell, a couple of thoughts on that. One, I think they really believe this stuff. Look at the overall history of the LCS, Zumwalt, Ford, etc. It's replete with idiotic statements backed up by equally idiotic actions. The two go hand in hand. If they were making dumb statements but good actions then I'd be inclined to believe that they were just putting out PR but when the actions exactly match the statements there's only one conclusion you can draw.
DeleteTwo, when you continually conduct "combat exercises" that consist of nothing but sailing in formation, photo ops, command and control practice, and the like, at some point that becomes your standard for combat. This is what these guys were raised on. This is what they actually think constitutes a combat exercise. This is what they think combat consists of. This is how you get heavily armed riverine boats surrendering to almost unarmed Iranians. We no longer have the slightest idea what combat really is. Thus, the statements match the actions, again.
I'm sorry, but I've got to take the statements at face value until I see some actions that indicate otherwise.
Have to admit the "formation training" part sounds horrible to anybody with a modicum of military training or insight...I think we have already talked about this in more general terms before, I wonder how much this has to do with the Admirals qualifications or just they can spout mediocre garbage and technical mumbo jumbo and get away with it? Where's the push back? Congress? Senate? Media? yeap, not much there....so you can spout garbage and not care how stupid it sounds to anyone with service time or more than 2 brains because let's face it: you're wearing a fancy suit with a bunch of medals, so for vast majority of Americans, sounds right and good!
DeleteSadly, you're probably right, after so many years, decades of lowering the bar, Admirals can out there and spout garbage and utterly believe they're doing their jobs!
""formation training" part sounds horrible to anybody with a modicum of military training"
DeleteThis is the equivalent of sending an Army unit to a combat exercise and practicing parade field marching!
"anyone with service time or more than 2 brains"
??? More than 2 brains?! ComNavOps is known for his vast intellect but even he only has one brain! Who are these people who visited the Wizard of Oz more than once? Heh, heh. LOL Just funnin' :)
Formation sailing can be deadly if not done right. Our last aircraft carrier sank two ships in its career, both incidents concerned with changing position in a formation.
Delete1. HMAS Voyager near Sydney while being a plane guard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melbourne-Voyager_collision
2. USS Frank E Evans in the South China sea while changing formation position. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melbourne%E2%80%93Evans_collision
"Formation sailing can be deadly if not done right."
DeleteTaking a bath can be deadly if not done right. For a navy, formation sailing is the equivalent of walking. It's just something you master early on so that you can move on to the stuff that really matters. If the US Navy thinks formation sailing is what really constitutes combat exercises then we should all just learn to speak Mandarin and wait for the Chinese to take over.
Admittedly, the US Navy has a less than stellar record with simple sailing in traffic but if this is the level of difficulty and realism of our combat exercises then we need to pack it in and just quit.
Spot on CNO
ReplyDeleteI hate to beat a dead horse, but I still think what is driving this particular brand of stupidity is the move to the LHAs/LHDs as the primary amphib asset. I was in the Gator Navy when they first started coming down the pike, and we all felt it was incredibly stupid to put so many eggs in one basket. Unfortunately, I think it has turned out worse than we imagined.
ReplyDeleteAs an amphibious platform it is basically useless. It is such a high-value target that it has to hang 25-50 miles offshore, and we have no connector to launch a legitimate amphibious attack from there. Helos and V-22s can't haul tanks or heavy artillery, boats are too slow, LCACs are not reliable, and attrition kills the whole evolution.
We have a Marine Corps that cannot perform its primary mission objective--amphibious assault--because the Navy has no assets to support it. So the Commandant is having to go back to the drawing board to design a force that can do something within those limitations, and find a mission that such a force can execute. We have the Navy kidding itself that some kind of combined carrier/phib operation conveys great combat power when the two are largely incompatible.
As far as sailing in formation, given the state of our training that may be a major accomplishment.
The idiots are truly running the asylum.
Well, we are talking 6 or 7 ships in formation so for today's standard, that's probably huge Task Force! Im sure it was scary!
DeleteWith 6 or 7 ships, I'm just glad nobody hit anybody.
DeleteStars and Stripes, April 1 "Pentagon deploys ships, aircraft and troops to Caribbean, eastern Pacific to help stop drug traffickers"
ReplyDeleteNavy deploying DDG-51's, LCS's and P-8's, we now know what what the priority mission is for Navy's multi-billion destroyers, missiles and aircraft is for, just wonder why they didn't include two aircraft carriers in the task force, one Pacific and one Caribbean, expect it was due to covid-19 :)
I think it's more of a subtle warning to Venezuela then anything.
DeleteThe failed attempt at ramming and the subsequent announcement of the deployment is too coincidental.
Would the Navy do something smart and buy the "armored cruise ship" for WesPac ops?? Arrrrgghhh.
DeleteSince we appear to be in a world depression it could cost just a few million?
ReplyDeleteThink of it as part of a film script. This exercise is the place that the supporting characters are introduced, have minor conflicts with the stars, and learn to "work with them."
ReplyDeleteShouldn't Admirals and Captains know the different between movies and reality? Certainly, but their recent behaviour makes much more sense if they don't.
I was an AC during the late 70s to early 80s assigned to TACRON at NAB Coronado. Did three WESTPAC deployments during that time onboard one LPH and 2 LHAs. Those days MEUs were MAUs and the LHAs had the 3 5/54 mounts with MK86 GFCS. During the three deployments we never once operated with a CVN/CV. One of the LHAs (Tarawa) had six AV-8s embarked and we would sometimes work with them, but these were the original "A" models and had limited fuel endurance. The only time we worked fixed wing aircraft other than the Harriers was for a few hours during an abbreviated exercise with Kenyan F-5s. And I seem to recall it was not a very safe evolution. That pretty much accounted for the entirety of three deployments. We TACRON sailors were assigned TAD to staff of PHIBRON so we learned maneuvering board and more from staff OSs.
ReplyDeleteAdditional thoughts. The LHAs had NTDS with LINK 11/14 (sorry do not recall the names correctly). We steamed in company with LST/LPD/LSD with no NTDS, so could not exchange track data with those ships. And with no carrier nearby, no one to share tracks with. We used to laugh about that. Up on the O5 or O6 level of the LHAs was a flag space that contained a radar repeater called an operation summary console, maybe an OJ-195. It was a HUGE CRT and it was another piece of equipment that was largely a dust collector. We'd laugh about that piece of gear also, how much Uncle Sam paid a contractor for something that big. I can only imagine the cost considering the size and it was probably cutting edge tech for that time frame. Sorry for the sea story, with its many faults, I will always love the US Navy.
Jim
Always good to get the information from the guys who were there. Thanks for sharing!
DeleteJim, in your experience, how much air space (bubble) do you need around an aviation amphib for safe operation? Any idea what the bubble around a CVN would be?
DeleteI ask because in WWII, carriers in a group found that they needed a certain bubble around each carrier to prevent air space interference between carriers and I'd like to know what the bubble is today, given that we now operate jets?
Thanks!