Wednesday, June 29, 2016

Mutiny?

Wow!  Read these excerpts from a Fox News website article about the recent Iranian seizure of two US boats and crews (1).

“…when the order was given to evade the Iranian forces, the helmsman refused the order.”

The helmsman "refused the order" ?????

Are you kidding me?!  That’s mutiny.

“ ‘The story here is these guys had gotten so used to Iranians doing stupid s---, having weapons pointed at them all the time, they didn’t know they were being captured until the Iranians boarded their boats,’ one defense official said describing the lack of situational awareness by the Navy crew. ‘They messed up pretty bad.’ “

Are you kidding me?!  We’ve gotten so used to being threatened that we didn’t even know we were being boarded?  This is what happens when your default force posture is appeasement.  Sure, they’re pointing presumably live weapons at you but, hey, don’t respond.  That’s idiotic.  If someone points a weapon at you, shoot them!  Even in the civilian world, that’s legal.

At the moment, these are unsubstantiated snippets so I’ll withhold final judgment pending the release of the official report in a couple days but this doesn’t look good.

A Congressman (I can’t recall who it was) who had been briefed on this incident, stated in an interview a week or so ago that we weren’t going to believe what would be in the report on this.  If these snippets are any example, he was more than right.

If these incidents are proven to be true in the official report, CNO Richardson should resign for having allowed the Navy’s readiness and discipline to fall to such a low level.  Of course, to be fair, the bulk of the blame lies with his predecessor, Adm. Greenert, but he's now untouchable.  Still, the blame always lies with the Captain and the Captain of the Navy is CNO Richardson.  He's got to go.

I can’t wait for this report to come out.


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(1)foxnews.com, “Navy commodore to be relieved of command over Iran's capture of his sailors”, Lucas Tomlinson, June 24, 2016,


23 comments:

  1. If anyone has to resign, it should be Secretary Ray Mabus, who has been in charge of the Navy for the last 7 years.

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    1. Ztev, I'm not sure exactly what you mean, but the CNO reports to Secnav. The Secretary of the Navy is responsible for the overall conduct of all uniformed personnel in the Navy (and Marine Corps).

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    2. Comments have been removed for being factually incorrect.

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    3. How about Ash Carter? It seems that the OSD is fiddling with social equity in the military while the equipment and tactics burn.

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  2. There seems to be many issues and the local commanders have been fired already.
    "Second, the chain of command was not well defined on the two boats. While a young lieutenant was the highest-ranking individual on either of the two 50-foot boats, when the order was given to evade the Iranian forces, the helmsman refused the order."
    The Fox News story seems badly put together so we'll see what other things come out in the next few days

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  3. The helmsmen refused makes no sense. If he froze or said no, someone else should have immediately slapped him away and took over. All this points to an intentional act by senior officers to cause an incident on the eve of the Iran missile agreement. That is the mutiny.

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  4. A serious topic and incident indeed.

    However based on an earlier Blog posting of yours saying get rid of the Marines, if this story is true then perhaps the Marines need to go back on the ships to keep order and discipline.

    Touche!

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    1. In which post did I say to get rid of the Marines? I'm actually quite in favor of the Marines, just no in their current guise!

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    2. 6/16/16 Post

      Extract

      It’s getting harder and harder to see what the Marines bring to the table that the Army and Air Force don’t already have. This is really sad.

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    3. From that you got "get rid of the Marines"? You missed badly.

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  5. I believe this lesson is one that should have been in the briefing....
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-463690/F--mate-How-Aussies-repelled-Iranian-gunboats-unlike-hapless-sailors.html

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  6. This is Fox News; they aren’t great at this kind of thing.

    And by that I’m going to be generous and say that proper terminology isn't their forte.

    In my experience they sometimes just like to make up facts when it seems more interesting to do so. Then they just do a retraction or apology a bit later.

    Over this side of the pond, we particually liked this Fox News special ;

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-30773297

    oh and then there was this one too;

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/19/world/europe/fox-news-apologizes-for-false-claims-of-muslim-only-areas-in-england-and-france.html

    so a little misreporting of mutiny is small fry.

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    1. They appear to be accurate on this one. See my next post.

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  7. CNO

    I find it hard to have calm conversations with you, but lets try.
    So, as a former soldier in a western army that had to work alongside arab soldiers....
    Here we go,
    I know this is going to sound both insane, and bigoted as hell, but, its my experience so ill relate it as it happened.
    Despite this being an anecdotal account, it was widespread, and heavily reported in the IDF.
    Joint patrols with Palestinian authority troops, entailed a short platoon of IDF infantry, accompanied by a small contingent of PA soldiers. They'd typically walk behind us, with weapons cocked, bullets chambered, fingers on triggers, and safety off. Any infantry soldier would know this is insane, but, it was the arab way, they all did it. Inbred morons, no matter how often their officers told them off, its the only way they operated. They'd walk behind us, with weapons aimed at our backs, almost the entire patrol. It'd make your hair stand on end. It was simply typical arab behaviour, a downtrodden imbecilic people, defeated by every foreign power that came into the region, trying to get a modicum of bravado back (bravado was something they have an astonishing amount of).
    We initially refused to do them, but orders came down from on high, soldier, shut up and soldier.
    It is what it is. I know it sounds insane when you've had no contact with this kind of behaviour, but, its endemic to the muslim peasant mind. It gives them a feeling of superiority (false, obviously, look at every muslim nation on earth) but, as the bigger man, and make no mistake, we are always the bigger man, you put up with the imbecile pulling stunts that imbeciles pull, in the hope that in the long run, they'll grow out of their infancy.

    Make no mistake, smarted people than you and I have been grappling with ways to deal with this issue for generations. And, haven't come up with anything better. We have decided that morally we can't turn the M.E. into a glass wasteland, that was the Roman way, and look where that got them? So, in the interim, that the rest of us may sleep easier, our troops on the front line must work with what can only be described as a bunch of a holes.

    I feel sorry for the troops involved. I guarantee you, its not their fault, nor the mid level officers, i promise you, they have extremely strictly defined ROE. Keep going higher, the admirals/generals [Aladeen] have political instructions informing them that they simply must put up with the shit, and must under no circumstances start a shooting war that can only lead to one thing, many many dead incompetent muslims, our political leaders insist that we all accept this for the greater good and that it will eventually get better... So, when these incidents do come up, and, they will now and again, we find a few scapegoats, some competent troops take the fall for arab assholedome,
    We haven't got a better solution yet. I'm sorry if this doesnt agree with your delicate sense of justice, or, injustice, its the reality under which soldiers must function.
    Not fair, not nice, but hey, soldier, shut up and soldier, has been passed down the order of command since well before Gilgamesh smashed the Akadians and ensured Summerian hegemony...

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    1. "I find it hard to have calm conversations with you, but lets try."

      So don't try!

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    2. You didn't say anything I disagree with, though I was unaware of the Arab guns issue.

      Do you think I'm unaware of how things work? I completely understand how things work. The difference, perhaps, between you and I is that I go a step further and try to offer better solutions.

      If someone points a weapon at a US serviceman, they should be shot and killed. In very short order, that will convince people not to point weapons at us. I know that's not the way things are currently done but that's how they should be done.

      If we shot down every Russian aircraft that buzzed our ships, they'd soon stop buzzing our ships. We can claim weapons malfunctions for plausible deniability.

      Even in the civilian world, if someone points a weapon at you with hostile intent, you have the right to shoot them.

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    3. That wasn't so hard. I'm calm as can be!

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    4. In defence of the Roman empire, it was inept bureaucracy and unreliable allies (Byzantine in particular.) that lead to its downfall. Even then, it existed till 15th century bc.

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  8. As a self criticism Cicero wrote of Roman foreign policy,
    "Rome makes a wasteland and calls it peace"
    We're trying to be more civilised, even when dealing with uncivilised people. Try and civilise them. Kill them all and let god sort em out is very 13th century.

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    1. Do you really think I'm advocating killing all Arab citizens? Come on. Seriously?

      I'm saying that in a military-to-military situation, if someone points a weapon at us, we shoot. That's the inherent right of self-defense that all US service personnel have. This principle has been enshrined by the military legal system and repeated by every US command element. After a few such incidents, word would get out that you don't point weapons at US service personnel. Thereafter, the world of military encounters would be a safer place for all concerned. No one would be pointing weapons, which is safer and less stressful, and if someone does point one, we'll know it's because they intend to use it and we can react faster, without any hesitation.

      This is an eminently reasonable and ultimately safer approach.

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    2. I have had a ROE that stated that we could not fire if they pointed their weapons at us. It was only return fire, unless it was RPG or grenades could we immediately engage. Politics at play I guess...

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