Tuesday, September 8, 2026

Foreign Shipbuilders

Yet another data point for those who believe that foreign shipbuilders produce better, faster, and cheaper ships.
 
Belgium’s long-running plan to replace its ageing M-class frigates has entered a new and potentially consequential phase. Defence Minister Theo Francken has publicly stated that the joint Dutch-Belgian frigate programme is moving “completely in the wrong direction” on both delivery dates and price …[1]
 
… following a previous extension, recent signals point to further delays of two to three years.[1]

To be clear, this program is in the design phase, not actual construction but design is part of the build and the design costs and schedule delays are real.
 
 
 
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[1]Naval News website, “Belgium Eyes ASWF Alternatives as Damen Timeline and Costs Soar”, Tayfun Ozberk, 21-Jul-2026,
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2026/07/belgium-aswf-frigate-alternatives-damen-delays/
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16 comments:

  1. SpikedpsychoSeptember 8, 2026 at 6:19 AM

    Yeah in Turkey.
    One is issue of Turkey growing domestic defense sector, eating up most manufacturing resources. Defense pacts which require it to commit significant resources.
    2nd: Turkey's ever growing schit list of internal social political problems, that stem from....
    3rd: Corruption, Ubiquitous in Turkey. Lack of female participation in the workforce slices it's potential capacity to hire engineers and potential workforce is heavily curtailed. Women can weld... sure did Rivet. Banking issues make it essentially impossible to secure loan guarantees for shipyards to put hulls on order. "Hand Shake" and honor businesses don't respond well to corrupt banks and corrupt businesses. Case in point, Who built Israel' Navy?
    - Saar 5: Hungington Ingalls Mississippi
    - Saar 6: Blohm and Voss/ Lurrssen.
    - Submarines; Kruyp.

    Bulk it's navy is outsourced, because their ship industry is essentially Crap and navy wouldn't trust domestic industry to do it anyway.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. ComNavOpsSeptember 8, 2026 at 8:06 AM

      I have no idea what point you're trying to make. You start by talking about Turkey then apparently switch to Israel with no obvious connection and finally an unspecified "navy". In addition, your comment borders on politics and sociology which are outside the scope of the blog. I'm considering removing the comment as too confusing. Please offer some clarification if you wish it to remain. Thank you.

      Delete
    2. AnonymousSeptember 8, 2026 at 10:20 AM

      The issue is Turkish Authorities have launched an investigation into 33 shipyard companies, 2 trade associations, and 1 consultancy firm. belgium turned to Turkey to consolidate those frigates. Damen eyed multiple nations for their production, new information casting these issues in doubt.
      https://www.turkiyetoday.com/region/belgium-turns-to-turkiye-4-eu-states-for-frigates-as-dutch-deal-sours-3224326

      Result, entire industry is in a tailspin 10% decline in orders, 25% reduction labor; to re-coop loss, amortize the finances by raising the price of the ship.

      This wasn't new news, it's maritime industry issues; have been in the news since 2014 and occurs top down.

      https://www.ft.com/content/c1544f0e-a3bd-11e3-88b0-00144feab7de?syn-25a6b1a6=1

      This issue is not so much the danger of outsourcing but focus more on the danger of sub-Contracting and role reliability in trusting a sub-Contractor. EU may/probbaly knew about the corruption but languished it anyway because Turkey so "essential" as NATO partner.

      In reversal of fortune; Israel knew about their own corruption to begin with, hired shipyards they knew would do it right.

      ---------------
      The new frigates means Netherlands/Belgian navies are 140 meters long, Belgium simply lacks suitable drydock capacity to construct vessels long in timely matter without competing economy vessels.

      Delete
    3. ComNavOpsSeptember 8, 2026 at 5:15 PM

      How is this relevant to the post?

      Delete
  2. AnonymousSeptember 8, 2026 at 9:03 AM

    Cost aside, but another data point would be Japan's Mogami class frigate, the first of which was commissioned in April 2022 with the 10th unit commissioned this past June. The 11th unit is due to be commissioned by the end of the year.

    South Korea's Incheon and Daegu class frigates are two other data points.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. ComNavOpsSeptember 8, 2026 at 5:05 PM

      What about them? How does it pertain to the post?

      Delete
    2. AnonymousSeptember 8, 2026 at 7:29 PM

      Just that Japan put 9 frigates into service in just over 4 years, which is the faster part.

      Each multi-mission Mogami stealth frigate is capable of 30+ knot speed and is equipped with a 5-in gun, 8 antiship missiles, 16 Mk 41 cells, SeaRAM, and VDS/TASS. All of that would be the better part.

      The Australian version will have 32 Mk 41 cells.

      I can't address cost as there are too many things to consider. But, I have to think the Japanese can do much better than a billion per hull, especially if they're building 20+ hulls.

      Delete
    3. AnonymousSeptember 8, 2026 at 7:32 PM

      And, with the Japanese, there's a greater chance of getting them on time.

      Delete
  3. AnonymousSeptember 8, 2026 at 9:18 AM

    Speaking of Foreign Shipbuilding & Frigates:
    https://news.usni.org/2026/09/01/japanese-south-korean-turkish-warships-under-consideration-for-new-u-s-frigate-competition

    ReplyDelete
  4. AnonymousSeptember 8, 2026 at 5:14 PM

    Issue with new frigates is they are labeled ASW yet what weapons do they yield? According vague specification they only have one underwater weapon, Mk 54 torpedo and torpedo countermeasures torpedo. The mk 54 with a range 9km, however better than depth charges/grenades. If sub is lurking or hiding anti-submarine grenades like Saab ASW 127/600 are acceptable weapon, but it doesn't beat VLASROC. With range 22-28 km. Thats a standoff distance 3x that Mk 54 but the frigate only accommodate 16 VLS cells leaving little to accommodate except arsenal entirely Sea Sparrows for air defense.

    Lockheed 3-cell ExLS launchers, there is space to incorporate them perhaps flush against areas near stack exhaust or against bulkhead outer hull in form geometric blisters or near fore section as it rises past forecastle near bridge tower

    The Visby class corvettes were born neutered, because their delays in construction much their armament was never incorporated during initial commissioning so it took years to arm them. And they were never armed air defense missiles, now they are being upgraded 9 ExLS to accommodate 36 CAMM. With 12 additional cells sufficient to install VLASROC, hypersonic weapons or possibility of ballistic missile defense using naval Patriot. In any case defense in depth, as ships will likely accommodate the upgrades somewhere along the line anyway. The Iran war revealed the Ballistic missile as h horrendous weapon to wield tight nautical confines and North Europe is nothing but tight nautical confines... English channel, Shoals of France, Baltic amd North Sea. Ukraine war revealed you don't need to even have sea naval assets to harass navies and shipping

    ReplyDelete
  5. G2milSeptember 8, 2026 at 6:30 PM

    Here's my unrelated post that may be good topic for a future discussion. What is the US Navy's future plan for the Persian Gulf and IO? I just posted a short video "US Navy Insanity in the Persian Gulf"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39gvquSf3o8

    ReplyDelete
  6. SpikedpsychoSeptember 8, 2026 at 7:53 PM

    Issue ship building is not one domestic or foreign but the concern of drydock capacity but ships even large ones don't need them to be built. Titanic was 50,000 tons and built without drydock but classic slip ways.

    2016 New York City built a new park from scratch sinking 132 piles into the East river for a structure of 2.4 acres, 320 by 320 feet at total cost 260 million and took only 24 months. For billion dollars one could build 10 acre facility with two slip ways and associated scaffolding warehouses for vertical construction and crane rated 300 tons. Largest modular assemblies for Burke under construction are between 400-500 tons, for frigate likely less.

    Drydocks are necessary for inspection & maintenance of large vessels but not really their construction so solutions of innovation to build navy ships without need to occupy drydock capacity.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Bob NageleSeptember 8, 2026 at 11:04 PM

    "To be clear, this program is in the design phase, not actual construction but design is part of the build and the design costs and schedule delays are real."

    Well, at least they didn't start building them while the design is going on, so there's that ....

    ReplyDelete
  8. BA 1959September 9, 2026 at 9:25 AM

    Seems like it raises the question about why it seems like a number of countries can't design a navy ship with any schedule rigor. So the next question to answer is what countries can, and how do they behave that is different and allowing them to do so? We're in the first category, why can't we try and learn from the second category?

    ReplyDelete

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