Monday, February 19, 2024

Surface Drone Swarm

Russia just lost another landing ship to a Ukrainian drone swarm.[1]  The mind simply boggles at the degree of ineptitude being exhibited by the Russians.  Let’s use this incident to examine the use of surface drone swarms.
 
Let’s start by looking at the drones Ukraine is using and see how deadly they really are.
 
 
Magura V5
 
The commonly reported Ukrainian drone craft is the Magura V5.  There have been different versions produced so the specs vary, depending on the source and the referenced variant.  The drone is a relatively small craft (5.5 m long) with a low silhouette which would make them difficult to spot visually, however, at speed they leave a very visible wake.  Their shape is not notably radar stealthy although they are smooth and relatively free of protrusions so they may be somewhat radar stealthy.  Propulsion is said to be an electric motor or hybrid (gas-electric?) of some sort.  Presumably, the craft are readily visible in the infrared and should be easily detectable at the horizon, some 12 miles distant or so, depending on the height of the EO/IR sensor.  Range is variously reported to be 250-500 miles.  Control is via optical sensor and satellite (Starlink?) communication.  Drone weight is 1000 kg (2200 lb) with a payload variously reported as 300-400 lbs explosive.  Cruising speed is 20 mph with a terminal burst speed about twice that.
 
Magura V5 Drone



Magura V5 Drone


Acoustically, an electric motor running at high speed and a craft sailing at high speed should generate significant noise and be readily detectable at 10-25 miles, using passive sonar.  I would imagine the sound would be similar to that of a torpedo at speed.
 
I would assume that, like all weapons with a range, the reported range is much greater than the effective operational range.  Thus, the operational range is likely 50-100 miles but that’s just informed speculation on my part.  It does, however, greatly impact the overall effectiveness of the drone since it impacts the launch distance from the target.
 
This is a surface running torpedo, for all intents and purposes.  Like a torpedo, it can be deadly if not treated appropriately.  Unlike a torpedo which can be decoyed but cannot be destroyed, these drones are easily destroyed with appropriate weapons.
 
Now, let’s look at the Russian landing ship.
 
 
Ropuch Amphibious Ship
 
The Ropucha class landing ship is a medium size (369 ft long, 4080 tons displacement), lightly armed LST with either 2x 57mm dual guns (Ropucha I) or 1x 76mm gun and 2x AK-630 30mm CIWS (Ropucha II).  Either way, that’s not a lot of armament!
 
The ship has multiple fire control, search, and navigation radars.  I assume it has EO/IR sensors but that’s speculation.
 
Crew size is around 90.
 
 
Now, let’s consider some of the relevant operational factors.
 
 
Operational Factors
 
Launch Site.  The drone can be launched from shore or from a host vessel.  Either way, the drones must be close enough to the target to be within the range of the drone.  It’s not as if the drone can be safely launched from a thousand miles away.  One would think that a host vessel, meaning, potentially, any unidentified vessel within 500 miles, would be easily spotted and sunk before it could launch the drones.
 
Alternatively, if launched from shore, the launch operation would require trucks and handling equipment given the overall drone weight of a ton or more.  This is not something that one tucks into a backpack.  It’s a fairly major operation to transport, handle, and launch the craft.  One would think that surveillance of the likely launch areas and access roads would be effective in spotting and preventing launches.
 
Detection.  As noted, there are multiple modes of detection including visual, infrared, acoustic, and radar.  A semi-alert defender should have no trouble detecting the drones at a distance.  The use of swarms of multiple drones further increases the chance of detection.
 
Satellites.  Satellites (reportedly Starlink) are, apparently, being used to control the drones.  I assume Russia is attempting to disrupt the satellite communications although given the demonstrated degree of incompetence, this may not be true.  Satellite vulnerabilities include physical destruction in space, local signal disruption, cyber attacks at various points of the satellite system (ground control, master communications, local receivers, etc.).  If Starlink involvement is confirmed, Russia would be within their rights to conduct physical sabotage of Starlink facilities even in the US.
 
If Russia is attempting any of these actions, they appear to be having little or no success.
 
Targeting.  Targeting information is likely being gathered via satellites and UAVs, probably from Ukrainian-allied countries like the US.  Again, if confirmed, Russia could conduct attacks on the targeting assets with minimal risk of escalation.  The last several years have demonstrated that the US is highly unlikely to respond beyond speeches and warnings that are never acted on.
 
Lethality.  The drones reportedly carry around three hundred pounds of explosive which is a reasonably substantial amount of explosive.  However, it should be noted that the explosive is a non-penetrating effect as compared to a shell, bomb, or missile.  This lessons the extent of damage relative to the nominal weight of explosive since a significant amount of the explosive force is directed away from the ship.  A similar phenomenon occurred in the attack on the USS Cole.
 
Proximity.  The Ukrainian drones benefit greatly from the unique geography of this situation.  The operating area is a fairly small, constrained area as opposed to the open ocean that the US Navy would operate in during a war with China.  Of course, if the Navy opted to do something stupid, like operate near land with inadequately armed and sensored ships, as the Russians are doing, then the result could well be similar.
 
Damage Control.  The Russians appear to have had very little success in applying damage control to ships that have been struck.  Obviously, hard data on this is difficult to come by.
 
 
 
Analysis
 
To sum up the preceding, the drones are potentially damaging with a few hundred pounds of explosive but they are also small, highly vulnerable to destruction, and easily detected.  So, why are they having some success? 
 
Note:  We hear about the successes but we do not hear about the failures, if any, and I assume there are many.  For example, it could be that only one in a hundred drones succeed.  While that wouldn’t change the overall end result, it would certainly change the assessment of the efficiency of the drones.
 
There is simply no getting around the staggering degree of Russian ineptitude.  They are sending ill-equipped ships, unescorted, into known dangerous waters with, apparently, no aviation surveillance support such as helos or UAVs.  A handful of small, simple escorts with suitable sensors and weapons would end the drone threat.  Even submarines ought to be able to provide detection of drones, interdiction of host ships, if any (most hints suggest shore launches), and covert surveillance of possible shore launch sites..  Russia supposedly has seven Kilo class subs in the Black Sea and their sonars should be able to detect drones and provide early warning.
 
The operational stupidity is compounded by the lack of long range interdiction of the launch points and ships/trucks that are used to transport and launch the drones.  Russia should have air, land, and sea patrols dedicated to finding and destroying the transport/launch vehicles or ships.
 
If we consider the kill chain concept, there are several links in the chain where the Russians could take effective action to disrupt the chain (production facilities, storage facilities, transport, launch event, local detection, and local destruction).  Bafflingly, the Russians seem to be unwilling or unable to break the chain at any of those points.
 
In the hints we get from videos, the Russians appear unable to kill many (any?) drones with the weapons they do have.  This speaks volumes about the overhyped claims of Russian weapon performance (as we’ve seen throughout history and covering ALL Russian weapon systems) and/or the woeful state of Russian training.
 
Compounding all this is the Russian’s unwillingness to seek out and destroy targeting platforms.  The Russians could, simply, declare suitably large exclusion zones and then destroy any foreign (US) aircraft in the area.  Similar actions could be taken against satellite surveillance if, indeed, that is a source of targeting information.
 
As with all other aspects of this war, Russia is conducting the drone defense operations in the most inept manner imaginable. 
 
The Ukraine success is due almost exclusively to Russian ineptitude rather than any inherent capabilities of the drones which, as we’ve discussed, are not particularly formidable on paper.
 
 
Conclusion
 
So many naval observers want to jump on the drone bandwagon because of Ukraine’s handful of successful attacks but is this enthusiasm justified? 
 
An objective analysis suggests that drones are not a threat to an alert, suitably equipped defender who counters the threat with intelligent operations, doctrine and tactics.  The ineptitude of the Russians cannot be ignored and, therefore, trying to derive universal lessons from this is an exercise in futility if not downright misleading.
 
Like any threat, if one fails to treat the threat with the respect it deserves, it can be lethal.  The US needs to be aware of drone threats and train and equip to counter them but they are not, inherently, a serious threat.
 
 
 
_______________________________
 
[1]Redstate website, “Russia Loses Large Landing Ship to Ukrainian Drone Swarm”, streiff, 14-Feb-2024,
https://redstate.com/streiff/2024/02/14/russia-loses-large-landing-ship-to-ukrainian-drone-swarm-n2170101

43 comments:

  1. "Alternatively, if launched from shore, the launch operation would require trucks and handling equipment given the overall drone weight of a ton or more."

    At 18 feet and 2,000 pounds, the Magura V5 is about the size of a medium-size fishing boat that'll fit on your driveway. It shouldn't be too hard for a few guys with a truck and a trailer to put in the water.

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    1. Come on now. Are you thinking this through? We're not talking about driving out to the local lake, towing your boat, and then launching it off a public ramp. We're talking about transporting a destroy-on-sight target through enemy controlled or contested territory. The drone won't/can't be on a simple trailer where it can be easily spotted. It has to be inside a truck. Getting it out of a truck requires some type of handling machinery. There is not prepared ramp. It would be a launch across a beach of some sort - no easy feat. All of this has to be repeated several times to assemble a swarm of a half dozen or so drones. It's probably done at night with no lights.

      Think it through as if you're in a war zone.

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    2. I'm sure they transport their drones under cover and probably at night to avoid detection. And, they could have a dozen or more prepared spots to drop these things into the water. You're making these drones to be more high-tech then they really are.

      The last attack took place on Lake Donuzlav in western Crimea and, given their range, the drones could easily have been launched Ukrainian-controlled territory.

      The real work is staging an attack. Finding a suitable target, getting yout forces into position, and then waiting for the right moment to attack.

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    3. "You're making these drones to be more high-tech then they really are."

      It's not about technology. It's about weight and handling.

      "The last attack took place on Lake Donuzlav in western Crimea"

      ??? The Ropucha was attacked off Alupka, about 100 miles from Donuzlav. Are you suggesting that the attack was staged from there?

      " could have a dozen or more prepared spots to drop these things into the water."

      Russia largely controls all of Crimea, as best I can tell. The likelihood that Ukraine has prepared launch points that defy detection is highly doubtful.

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    4. They could send the parts in small peices to assemble in the woods or a covered boat dock. The drug runners do it under onservation too. Hell, dig out an earthen sub pen along a river bank or a cliff cave. The key here is its cold and winter and russians have little and poor night vision. I’d also point out fiberglass doesn’t transfer heat and is good for IR stealth. The exhaust can be dhot into the water and cooled just like a stealth ship. Plenty of unguided surface torpedoes made it through and these can maneuver.

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    5. You're welcome to your fantasy.

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  2. "Either way, that’s not a lot of armament!"

    I haven't thought about what armament an LST should have, but it's an important question. Wikipedia says the Newport class had 3"/50 guns. I've read that in tests conducted after the Gulf of Tonkin incident, those guns were found to be marginally effective against small threats. Perhaps the Oto Melara 76 mm guns with DART guided ammunition would be much better, but I don't know this for a fact. Perhaps 25- or 30-millimeter chain guns and GAU-19/A .50-caliber Gatling guns would be a good match for an LST, along with the Vulcan Phalanx and SeaRAM.

    Poland made an LST that included surface-to-air missiles, two or four 30 mm Gatling guns, and rocket launchers for fire support.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polnocny-class_landing_ship

    We'd all prefer the LST not be running around all by itself. Other ships could provide protection against speedboats and sea drones. For coastal combat, Carlton envisions what the littoral combat ship (LCS) should have been. It would have Hellfire and EFOGM missiles, along with the stabilized Mark 96 mount with a 25 mm chain gun and a 40 mm automatic grenade launcher.

    https://www.g2mil.com/LCS.htm

    The Ambassador III missile boat has been discussed several times on this blog, and Carlton mentions that it could be adopted quickly as an interim LCS. The book On the Gunline says that destroyer escort radar picket ships (DERs) would resupply Swift boats in Vietnam. Perhaps for some operations, a Burke-class destroyer could resupply missile boats while also providing air defense for everyone.

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    1. A modernized Buckley class DE would be a good ship for the LCS role. It could be heavily armed with updated weaponry and sensors and only draws 11 ft of draft at full load.

      Lutefisk

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    2. There won't be any more Ambassador IIIs. Go look at the Vanguard hull as your baseline propulsion and electric plant. You should have the weight to outfit that ship better being aluminum while getting, better, speed, range and maneuvering.

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    3. "A modernized Buckley class DE would be a good ship for the LCS role."

      Of course, the LCS was built EXACTLY for this role! How sad is that?

      Delete
  3. I would like to hear more about how you think the target ship and take out drones. What weapons can be targeted and with a high probabilty, hit the drone repeatedly (there is no one shot one kill gun system that I know of) to destroy it? Having worked with the SUW package of the LCS it is hard to hit small targets. I know LCS is not a sterling example, but the range and manual targeting principles are the same. DDG-1000 had no close in surface defense either. The Navy has brought in the NSM but I do not kknow the effectiveness of this. RADAR is not good for SUW against small targets, hence most systems do EO/IR.

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    1. I'm not quite sure what, exactly, you're asking? Targeting drones can come from any of the various methods/sensors I mentioned in the post. Effective weapons include CIWS, RAM (surface mode), 20 mm RWS, Hellfire, the Hydra series of rockets, APKWS, GBU-39 small diameter bombs (SDB), helos with various armaments, Mk 110 57 mm gun, 30 mm gun, 0.50 cal MG, and the list goes on.

      These drones are not armored. They're probably fiberglass shells or aluminum sheet metal. A few hits from anything will suffice to kill them.

      Radar should be adequate for detection (not targeting). EO/IR/acoustic should provide easy detection.

      Hitting a small boat is always a challenge but the weapons listed should be sufficient. Some are guided and all are directed (as opposed to area weapons). Remember, the drones need to make contact with the target ship which means the closer they get, the more accurate the weapons will be as opposed to Iranian swarm boats that only have to get close enough to launch rockets or small missiles.

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    2. One of the reasons that I advocate for Goalkeepers (or a 30mm Phalanx) as part of the CIWS mix is to provide some hard-hitting punch for these types of small craft.

      Lutefisk

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    3. "One of the reasons that I advocate for Goalkeepers (or a 30mm Phalanx) as part of the CIWS mix is to provide some hard-hitting punch"

      Okay. That sounds good but then wouldn't a 40mm be even better? Or the Mk110 57mm? Or, let's go all the way and make a 16" CIWS!

      Why do we always try to make every weapon a single-handed, war-winning, miracle machine? Can't we leave anti-air guns as just plain anti-air guns?

      Are you thinking that one of these paper-thick drones will shrug off 20mm rounds but not 30mm?

      I just don't get this obsession with making everything bigger and all-encompassing, do-everything.

      One of the problems is that in our zeal to abandon naval guns, we've abandoned the concept of layered weapons. A cruiser once had 6/8" guns as the primary fit with 5" secondary guns, and then 40mm and 20 mm. We could handle any threat. Now, we want one weapon to handle every threat.

      Maybe if we had a balanced fit of weapons we wouldn't need to pursue a one-gun-meets-all-threats notion.

      On a seemingly unrelated note, are you aware that the recent Ropucha which was sunk had AK-630 CIWS guns. Those guns are ... ... wait for it ... ... 30 mm! Didn't seem to do much good, did they? Could it be that 30 mm is not a magic solution? Maybe there are other things that are more important than ten millimeters difference in shells?

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    4. Not to take away from your larger point, but I'll explain the reason I'd include the Goalkeeper (or 30mm Phalanx).

      I like the CIWS with guns as a complement to the SeaRAM. But the Phalanx only has 20mm rounds with a 15mm sabot (at least as I understand it).

      That will punch a lot of holes in something, but not necessarily do a lot of damage.

      I'd add the 30mm Goalkeeper to the mix, utilizing HE rounds.
      That would provide punch against incoming large missiles, but would also provide some explosive lethality against speedboats, unmanned drones, etc.

      It also doesn't take up substantially more space or weight than a 20mm phalanx, as a larger caliber auto-cannon would.

      These weapons would a supplement to the 20mm Phalanx, not replace them.

      And part of the reason I chose this is that the 30mm CIWS already exists and could be put into usage immediately.

      Maybe good reasons, maybe not, but that is my intent with it.

      Lutefisk

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    5. Best reason I see for 30mm Phalanx now is to match ammo types with Mk 38 mod IV with the 30 x 173 standard.

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    6. My point is that I have not seen any of the weapons you cite, on the Navy's latest 2 ships (LCS and DDG-1000) being used in that mode. Given the 57mm on LCS is useless because it is not stablized or tied into the EO/IR systems I question if it works on other ships. Has there been testing of these modes? Using expensive missiles to take out cheap drones (Houthi exchanges) will bankrupt the Navy. My question really is has the Navy tested the tactics and weapons for a drone swarm attack? I'd love to hear they have.

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    7. "I have not seen any of the weapons you cite, on the Navy's latest 2 ships "

      Well, the LCS does have (or is being updated with) Hellfire, RAM/SeaRAM, and MG. Zumwalt has 30mm and, I assume, some MG. Those pitiful additions aside, you're correct that our ships are woefully lacking in suitable weapons for near-shore ops and anti-drone (both air and sea). However, now that we've identified the required weapons, I'm sure the Navy will read this and quickly backfit our ships to the appropriate levels! They will, won't they????

      "question really is has the Navy tested the tactics and weapons for a drone swarm attack"

      The Navy has conducted a few extremely unrealistic tests of the LCS vs swarm (and they did not go well). But, that's it. As far as I know, there has been no attempt to develop effective tactics, identify suitable weapons and employment envelopes, or update ship defenses.

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  4. When was the last time the Russian Navy was in a real battle at sea? Exactly.

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    1. "Exactly"

      Exactly, what? When was the last time the US was in a real battle at sea?

      You don't need to have been in a battle to learn the lessons. The lessons are readily available from history, realistic exercises, and common sense ... you know, all the things the US Navy ignores.

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    2. Lonfo, 1905 Tsushima.
      The Russian Navy of 1905 was well equipped to deal with drones and torpedo boats, unlike todays Russian Navy.
      A Borodino class had 20x 75mm and 20x 47mm guns.
      which is probably about the number guns in the whole Black Sea fleet of today.

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    3. "A Borodino class had 20x 75mm and 20x 47mm guns."

      We stupidly abandoned regular old, everyday, run of the mill guns in favor of multi-million dollar, exquisite missiles. This trend culminated in the Zumwalt which, unbelievably, has NO close in weapons! Similarly, we abandoned guns on fighter aircraft in favor of 'can't miss' missiles because we knew dogfighting was over and done. We continually insist on bleeding edge technology weapons instead of good old fashioned firepower.

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    4. "Exactly, what? When was the last time the US was in a real battle at sea?"

      And that's exactly why we saw USN ships running aground, failing to detect large, unstealthy merchant vessels, focusing on anything BUT combat readiness, etc.
      Peacetime rot over decades will do this to most militaries (yes, exceptions exist but they are called exceptions for a reason).

      Russia's navy has never faced actual risk in ages, is rotting from incompetence and now they're paying the price.

      If the America ever gets into a semi-serious naval fight again (fighting primitive tribes doesn't count), the same might very well happen to the USN.

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  5. Interesting that you are supposedly analyzing the effectiveness of a Drone Swarm without providing anything about the collective ‘swarm’ aspect. The advantage may well shift to the drone attacker if he employs several, simultaneous, off-axis attacks. This is apparently what the Ukrainians are doing. For an informed operational analysis of how Ukraine is actually using its surface drones, see, “Analysis: An Operational View on the USV Attacks in the Black Sea from an Admiral’s Eyes”, accessed at: https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2024/02/analysis-an-operational-view-on-the-usv-attacks-in-the-black-sea-from-an-admirals-eyes/

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    1. Obviously, every additional drone increases the chance of the attacker's success. I would have thought that was obvious.

      I read that article prior to posting and it contained little of interest.

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  6. Hersh. Army Colonel overruled SEAL commander near Somalia resulting in two dead SEALs and one hospitalized.
    https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/the-seals-and-the-dhow

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  7. British cargo ship sunk near Yemen. Insurers will refuse to pay future claims for damage near Yemen so none will sail. Problem solved!
    https://twitter.com/Trollstoy88/status/1759707633148113091?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1759707633148113091%7Ctwgr%5E1246de40039effa6c82325a59fd414c9b38c533a%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.snafu-solomon.com%2F

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  8. Id continue to agree with CNOs premise from years ago that this conflict holds few lessons. If there actually was one so far, Id say that itd be " Small or third world forces can cause significant damage to a vastly more powerful, but ineptly managed one".

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    1. " Small or third world forces can cause significant damage to a vastly more powerful, but ineptly managed one".

      If we didn't learn that in Vietnam, we may never learn it. The last 20 years in Iraq and Afghanistan tend to suggest that we didn't.

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    2. Id say theres a difference though. Being inept is different than not using your combat power due to worrying about collateral damage, playing "to the cameras", using politics to shape your military actions/goals, etc.

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  9. Not just US, China also works on drone ship. They have deployed drone ships to patrol bridge:

    https://news.usni.org/2021/10/11/chinese-testing-experimental-armed-drone-ships-at-secret-naval-base

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/wolf-pack-attack-china-launches-new-killer-robot-ship/T7UUURBM3OAQFCIIQA5E5BOGLU/

    https://maritime-executive.com/article/china-s-unmanned-mini-destroyer-out-on-sea-trials

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  10. Many Ukraine claimed sunk Russian ships are suspicious without solid evidences. AI generated videos are common today. Badly need to tell people "we are right", western media cooperate with governments to report these boasts without examining evidences.

    It is common a losing nation to boast "victories" to maintain morale. Japan close to end of WWII was famous on this.

    According to US media reports on Ukrainian "victories" in battle, Russia would have begged for terms now.

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    1. The attacks, damage, and sinkings have pretty much all been confirmed by Russia.

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  11. To certain extent, it is hard to judge and clouds this as the future of warfare that so many establishment MIC analyst and DoD is pushing because as CNO says, what's up with the Russians?!? We starting YEAR 3! of this war and the number of mistakes, ineptitude, weird decisions or no decisions, bad training,etc etc....ok, I can see YEAR 1 having issues with this BUT this is YEAR 3 and these things are still getting thru and blowing up and damaging ships. There's plenty of remedies as CNO notes so why not much implementation? Some of these remedies are cheap and not really complicated and Ukraine V5 drones are still getting thru....doesn't make much sense.

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    1. In a permissive aerial environment, such as this, a small, circling, glorified kids quadcopter with a camera would make an effective sensor. The wake from these drones would be easy to spot. When you're doing 20-40 kts, you're leaving behind a very visible wake. Cheap and easy to implement. I don't understand the Russians.

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  12. I would say 2 factors led to the loss of the ship. The first one is due to the fire control radar used by most russian ships that can control both 30mm guns or a 30mm gun and the 76mm piece at the same time, the antenna is fixed and canted upwards for air defence and has a serious blind spot which means that it's blind within a certain range for sea skimming or surface target, the few ships with EO targeting systems have a 90s TV camera and and a laser, but only daylight targeting capabilities.

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    1. Regarding DC it becomes cleat that it would be a nightmare by looking at photos of the interior of russian ships, watertight doors on bolted or riveted non watertight walls, no equipment on shockproof mounts. And this even on never ships built in the last 20 years, on the outisde the seem somewhat modern but on the inside they mostly look like a soviet nightmare out of the 60s and 70s.

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    2. Thisbis just one example of a seamingly modern russian warship, with seemingly modern EO targeting, but not even some fancy modern flat screen can distract from the 60s vibes and seemingly shoddymetal work https://navalpost.com/russian-project-21631-buyan-m-class-corvette-uglich/
      If you search online you'll find many examples of the same.

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    3. "the antenna is fixed and canted upwards for air defence"

      I'm assuming you're referring to the Bass Tilt which houses a parabolic dish radar. My very vague understanding is that it can elevate and depress just as radars in the nose of a plane can.

      The AK-630 that it controls can depress to -25 deg and is claimed to be effective against surface targets and floating mines which further suggests that the controlling radar can depress.

      I could easily be wrong and if you have a reference that says otherwise, I'd love to see it.

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    4. "cleat that it would be a nightmare by looking at photos of the interior of russian ships,"

      I've not seen that. Yes, some aspects of Russian ship construction seem older in style but I don't see that necessarily leading to a conclusion of 'nightmare' DC.

      DC is more about proper procedures than materials. Heck, effective DC was practiced in the days of wooden sailing ships! What the Russian DC practices are and how thoroughly the crews are trained is unknown. Based on the general degree of ineptitude we've seen, I'm inclined to think their DC training is suspect but I have no hard information on that. Do you?

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    5. " Do you?"

      Well the maintenance report that was signed off on for the Moskva was pretty damning. And although I can't find now there were videos of her in action in the Georgia war and they were also pretty bad. Hatches open, equipment not stowed and fire fighting equipment clearly missing and overall a pretty careless attitude from the crew and were close enough to the coast the Georgians could have used any number of weapons to fire back if they happened to be on hand.

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  13. IF US Navy was serious and I doubt it, they would buy a dozen of these Ukrainian drones and run some trials to make sure US crews have some good SOP to deal with this, we really should be able to BUT I wouldn't mind seeing US Navy take a quick look and give sailors ALL options on how to deal with different scenarios....if this was the 80s or even still the 90s, I wouldn't worry BUT today in 2024?

    US Navy isn't doing too bad in Yemen right now, there, the problem is we have fired a bunch of top of the line missiles to shoot down all these drones and load outs aren't infinite, US Navy needs to develop A WAY CHEAPER way of dealing with that threat.

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    1. " they would buy a dozen of these Ukrainian drones and run some trials"

      It's not as if Ukraine suddenly invented small surface drones. Years ago, I posted about the Meggitt Hammerhead drone which have been commercially available for years: Meggitt Hammerhead

      Check it out and you'll see that the Navy could have been training for this kind of attack all along but has chosen not to.

      Delete

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