-A Predator UAV launches a Hellfire missile at a terrorist.
-A Ukraine unmanned surface drone attacks a Russian ship.
-A drone drops a grenade on Russian troops.
-A Russian base in Syria is attacked by a drone swarm.
-A US base in Syria is attacked by drones.
-Unmanned drones are being developed as ‘wingmen’ for manned aircraft.
-Turkey has built a UAV carrier and various unmanned aircraft to equip it.
-Russian UAVs attack Kiev.
-A Ukraine unmanned surface drone attacks a Russian ship.
-A drone drops a grenade on Russian troops.
-A Russian base in Syria is attacked by a drone swarm.
-A US base in Syria is attacked by drones.
-Unmanned drones are being developed as ‘wingmen’ for manned aircraft.
-Turkey has built a UAV carrier and various unmanned aircraft to equip it.
-Russian UAVs attack Kiev.
The future of warfare seems clear and it’s all about
unmanned assets, right? The various
conflicts around the world are proving the value of unmanned assets in combat
every day, right?
Before we jump feet first into the deep end of the unmanned
combat pool, let’s take note of one tiny, almost insignificant, detail that no
one seems to be paying any attention to:
all the unmanned combat that supposedly proves the worth of unmanned
assets is taking place in low intensity combat situations.
Many of you are already pounding out replies, screaming that
the Ukraine-Russia conflict is anything but low intensity. Thousands of artillery shells are being fired
every hour. How much more high intensity
can you get? Well, I’m sorry but you’re
wrong. The Ukraine-Russia war may be wasting
using lots of artillery shells but the overall conflict is decidedly low
intensity for a variety of reasons.
Neither side is fighting with any operational or tactical
expertise. The Russian air force is
almost absent. Top of the line Russian
armor seems to have been withheld from combat.
Ukraine doesn’t have an air force.
There’s no naval combat. Neither
side is using electronic warfare to any great extent or effect. Neither side is using concentrated armored
divisions in maneuver warfare. Neither
side is exhibiting any semblance of joint warfare. Infantry forces appear to be content with
occupying whatever territory they have rather than conducting intelligent
offensives. The Ukraine-Russia conflict
is much closer to WWI trench warfare than the WWII European combat of an
all-out, high intensity war.
I’ve made my point.
You can agree or disagree but I’m not going to entertain a debate about
the intensity of the Ukraine-Russia war.
Be forewarned. Moving on …
Other low intensity conflicts include Afghanistan,
Iraq/Iran, anti-terrorist actions, Israel-Hamas, Syria, Yemen, and many others. It’s not even debatable that these are low
intensity.
So … low intensity.
How is this relevant to unmanned combat?
Low intensity, by definition, means that combat forces and
effects are artificially limited, often severely so. Avoidance of collateral damage takes precedence
over achievement of military objectives.
Rules of Engagement (ROE) actively and intentionally limit the
application of force and kinetic effects.
In short, the engaged force is fighting with one (or both!) hands tied
and is only able to apply a fraction of its available capabilities.
The continuous Israeli conflicts with Hamas are an example
of self-imposed ROE restrictions that, with occasional periods of reduced
restrictions, severely hamper combat effectiveness.
The US conflict in Vietnam was another example of a low
intensity conflict in that the US unilaterally limited its use of force. Enemy forces were granted sanctuary across
the Vietnam-Laos border. North Vietnam
was allowed to freely resupply via Haiphong harbor. Hanoi was generally off-limits. And so on.
The US anti-terrorist effort in Afghanistan was a low
intensity conflict with terrorists allowed to escape into the sanctuary of
Pakistan.
The battle against ISIS was decidedly low intensity as
avoidance of collateral damage was the primary objective.
Let’s now consider the case of a true, high intensity
conflict in which the ‘gloves come off’ and the engaged forces are free to use all
of their capabilities (excepting nuclear, of course). How does this impact unmanned asset combat
use and effectiveness?
Sanctuary – As
noted in the examples, sanctuary is one of the most ludicrous artificially
imposed constraints imaginable. Unmanned
assets require a safe, calm, quiet location to prepare, maintain, launch, and
control the assets … a sanctuary of some sort.
Once the concept of sanctuaries is eliminated, overwhelming force can be
applied to the source of unmanned assets rather than trying to fight those
assets individually, as they attack. If
the enemy is given no sanctuary, his ability to employ unmanned assets is
drastically decreased.
Cost Ratio –
turned loose, why not use a Standard missile to shoot down a UAV if it protects
a multi-billion dollar ship? Sure, we’d
prefer to use a low cost method to stop a drone but when protection becomes
more important than the defensive cost, a Standard missile (or ESSM or RAM)
makes a very effective anti-UAV weapon.
Collateral Damage
– Who cares if that unmanned asset is near a civilian structure? Destroy it and ignore the collateral damage. Unmanned assets lose a lot of effectiveness
when they can’t ‘hide’ among non-combatant people and structures.
Pre-emptive Strikes
– In low intensity conflicts, forces are often reduced to defensive
stances. In a high intensity conflict
there is no need to sit on the defensive and, indeed, every reason to
attack. Rather than wait for the enemy
to attack with unmanned assets, wipe out that base where the unmanned assets
are being built, stored, and operated from and the unmanned threat
vanishes. Constant offensives will
hinder the enemy’s ability to pause long enough to assemble and operate
unmanned assets. Unless co-located with
some other type of heavily defended facility, an unmanned base would likely be
an easy, highly vulnerable target requiring a minimum of missiles or artillery
to eliminate.
Electronic Warfare
– Currently, as best we can tell, the US keeps its electronic warfare
capabilities under wraps. In an all-out,
high intensity war those capabilities get fully utilized and unmanned assets
will be severely disrupted, I suspect.
Identification –
In high intensity combat, you no longer care about identification. There’s only ‘yours’ and ‘not yours’ and no
one cares about identifying the ‘not yours’.
If it’s ‘not yours’, kill it.
Conclusion
A major part of the reason why unmanned assets are enjoying
some success around the world is because they’re being used in very restricted
conflicts where the defenses are constrained by hindering ROEs.
Let’s also be honest and acknowledge that another reason for
unmanned successes is that the defenders have largely been fairly inept and/or
ill-equipped to deal with them. This
would not be the case for the US, one hopes.
We have plenty of effective weapons to deal with unmanned assets even if
some of them would not be considered cost-effective.
It’s difficult to imagine unmanned assets having much
success against a US or Chinese military that is fighting with the ‘gloves off’. When the gloves come off in high intensity
combat, unmanned assets will be found to be a minor, niche asset, at best.
So, imagine the US military operating with no restrictions
and every capability in play. Can you
really see unmanned assets presenting any real threat? Of course not! Now, turn that imagination around. If unmanned assets would present no real
threat to us, do we really think they’ll present any real threat to China? Again, of course not! So, why are we so myopically fixated on
unmanned assets if we don’t believe they can be effective in high intensity
combat?
We need to pause our headlong pursuit of unmanned assets and
take a serious look at how effective they can be in high intensity combat. An honest assessment will leave us wondering
why we’re pursuing unmanned technology.
Note: I’m not
advocating dropping all unmanned work.
Unmanned assets can certainly be useful in low intensity scenarios which
is, after all, the bulk of the military’s efforts. However, we cannot allow low intensity assets
to filter into our high intensity combat doctrine and tactics.
So how long would the US and the Chinese be able to operate at high intensity ?. The Soviets planned on attrition with their Cat I/II/II divisions, the US doesn't have such a structure, do the Chinese ? The Ukrainians are supplied on Cold War leftovers, HAWK batteries anyone ?. The Russians are drawing on their Cat II/III vehicle parks, T55 are back in service. The winner of the Great Taiwan War will be the one
ReplyDeletewith the most old operational stuff in the back of the warehouse. The USN has what in reserve for the post
high tempo phase of the war ?
Thank you
ReplyDeleteYou're welcome ... for what?
DeleteI generally agree and I'll add some deeper reasons for why this is true:
ReplyDelete1. Cameras are light, bombs are heavy. A camera-carrying drone can be a fraction of the size of a manned surveillance aircraft. A drone carrying a 2000 lb bomb will need to be about the same size.
2. Fuel is also heavy. Long duration/range drones are large and expensive with existing technology.
3. Long-range sensors are big and heavy. A SAR system that can cover several hundred square kilometers won't fit on a DJI! And again, it isn't much smaller than manned craft.
Attack drones or long duration drones have few advantages in cost or size.
Small drones for passive intelligence gathering can have advantages, but we still run into problems:
1. If you want halfway decent sensors and avionics that are hardened then the drone is no longer cheap and expendable. If you don't have them then drone life will be measured in minutes. A RUSI report estimated Ukraine was going through 10,000 drones a month against Russian EW.
2. The long term equilibrium is towards autonomy, but it isn't here yet. The Germans had radio-guided anti-ship missiles in WWII and we mostly just jammed them instead of trying to intercept them. Japanese Kamikazes with onboard guidance were much more effective and now we have missiles with their own guidance to try to limit the jamming issue. Our technology for putting autonomy on an intelligence gathering drone is still somewhat large and power hungry. So it will work on $1 million-size drones but not $2000-size drones. There might be exceptions for situations where we find algorithmic short cuts to reduce compute but those are easier for enemies to counter because they are brittle. It isn't clear when this technology will really break through but you can't ignore it, either. The amount of resources going to train these AI models is increasing by orders of magnitude right now, so we'll know soon enough what needs more fundamental breakthroughs and what is practical with this level of technology.
One are for drones that I think is really underrated is weather data gathering UAVs that can make unguided artillery and rockets much more accurate. There was an example in the early 90s when they doubled the M270 range without increasing the circular error probability by just accounting for basic things like wind speed at the launch site. If you had that granular data all over the field then you could be pretty dang accurate on the first salvo.
Delete"weather data gathering UAVs that can make unguided artillery and rockets much more accurate. "
DeleteI have no idea whether you can significantly increase accuracy or not just by knowing the wind at the target (presumably the wind is not constant throughout the flight profile of the shell/rocket). That aside, how do you envision a UAV flying deep into enemy territory to the target site without being detected and destroyed?
That's the problem with the military's current view of UAVs. We seem to have the assumption that our UAVs will be able to freely roam the battlefield, undetected and unhindered by the enemy. That seems optimistic in the extreme.
Intuitively think about how forward observers walk the fire in. And once it is zero'd then it is quite accurate. That error comes from wind, uncertainty in elevation, position, etc. as well as variation in the physical gun and ammo. There is a lot of opportunity to reduce that initial error and put the first shell right on the money without a guidance package on the shell.
DeleteIf you are attacking front line positions then almost all the flight path would be behind friendly lines and if you were doing something like counter-battery then you'd still have a good portion behind friendly lines.
Here is some info on the range upgrade for the M26 rocket:
https://man.fas.org/dod-101/sys/land/m26.htm
Most tank guns also need temperature, barometric pressure, and windspeed to be accurate.
https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP84M00044R000200890001-1.pdf
Care to address the survivability aspect of a UAV over enemy territory?
DeleteI don't think they will be survivable, though in some cases you might be able to use instruments further away to determine wind speed by observing clouds, etc. You'd have to accept less accuracy when targeting further behind enemy lines. But that shouldn't be an issue because our knowledge of their location is going to be worse, too.
DeleteThere is one unmanned asset that is getting a lot of use in Ukraine that will also be very relevant to a high-intensity conflict: mines. We don't have enough of them. We don't have a great way to deliver significant numbers of them to the enemy. And we are almost completely helpless in the face of enemy mines.
ReplyDeleteOne of the lessons from Ukraine has to be a reminder of how effective mines can be as an area denial tool.
This whole thread becomes more important when you realize that the current navy leadership is pushing for the fleet to be 40% unmanned!!!
ReplyDeletehttps://www.defensenews.com/unmanned/2023/06/29/pressed-to-prove-value-of-amphibious-ships-marines-seek-to-add-drones/
ReplyDeleteThe Marines are interested in a conversion for use in low intensity conflicts I assume.
"But fears that these ships must do more to justify their sustainment costs are driving a new directive in the latest update to the Marine Corps’ strategy." This concept will be experimental at first. These amphib ships are expensive !
PB
watch this one minute clip of a UAV light show and think naval warfare.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lnBmYAiduo
An LPD could launch 500 UAVs at once. They could certainly confuse radar, maybe do a ship image too? Good for fleet defense as they converge in front of coming missiles. Or send them all crashing into something, or swarming a helicopter or other UAVs? Of course EW becomes an issue, but they could be pre-programmed at launch.
Whoops! This comment from G2mil.
DeleteThe Airforce has been considering the MALD concept where launched unarmed drones ( from a transport aircraft) confuse radar to allow the armed cruise missiles or manned shooters to get in ,There is a video of the "Rapid Dragon concept where palletized cruise missiles are also launched from transport plane .
DeleteYou wanna say that the russian army abides the rules of engagement in Ukraine?
ReplyDeleteJust ran across a year old article on Forbes describing how when Russia was losing badly on the ground they were actually really good at jamming and EW against drones. Overall was close to 90% over time. That has dropped mostly because the jamming trucks have slowly been blown to smithereens by old fashioned ground forces and artillery.
ReplyDeleteWe suffer from false impressions on the success of drones because drones provide their own PR. Ukraine and Russia both love showing drone footage. It gets posted on twitter and other sites and give the impression they are wonderful. They don't show the footage of screens going blank like an old tv from jamming. If we only judged D-Day by publicly released footage of Omaha beach, it was the most bloodless battle in Europe.
"drone footage. ... give the impression they are wonderful."
DeleteCorrect. We saw the same phenomenon after Desert Storm when the military released footage of precision guided weapons precisely impacting targets. Of course, they didn't release footage of the misses and post-war analysis reduced the initial claimed success rates of 95%, or whatever, to something on the order of 30-60%, depending on the analysis source.
The great selling point of drones, and why the top brass want them is simple--they want bloodless war. Recruiting for the armed forces isn't just down because of things like DEI or other political actions. Its down because we just left Afghanistan and it wasn't with a win. Recruitment wasn't great in 1975 either.
ReplyDeleteBut with drones they have the perfect weapon: no one writing their congressman about their dead son or daughter, and with no risk they can attack anyone and anything that makes Congress happy without risking their political careers--oops I mean military careers. And better still the brass get to pour money into their favorite military industrial connection so they can double up on their retirement fund with a think tank or corporate slot.
But I also think there is a problem to drones you haven't address. Namely ethics. Leadership--both political and military--love anything they think makes war "bloodless". I believe this leads to more wars, not less and to failed wars not won wars. For the 75 years since WW2 we have constantly limited ourselves more and more.
We just left Afghanistan after 20 years of a kinder and gentler form of warfare. And now the same people we went in to throw out are back in power.
What if after 9/11---we forget what started it--we had simply told the Taliban give us Bin Laden, and when they said no, treated a Taliban stronghold like it was Dresden in WW2. Horrific casualties yes, but if it had convinced them to hand over Bin Laden, we could have stayed out of it. Our being there for 20 years in a respectful, minimal damage way still probably cost 100,000 Afghan lives. How many civilian and US Military lives would have been spared if we had threatened to fight them the way Sherman and Sheridan did to our own own southern states?
Sanctions and little encounters did nothing to deter Gadaffi from sponsoring terrorism. But when an American bombing raid killed members of his family it brought the war home to him. By all accounts, he actually did withdraw from sponsoring terrorists and the border games he had been playing with his neighbors.
When war doesn't have a clear cost, wars happen.
China will not be deterred by threats of sanctions. They will not be scared of drones dropping a bomb in manner to minimize casualties.
But the threat of horrible, bloody war might.
Just a question.
ReplyDeleteThe New York Post earlier this year stated Ukraine is losing up to 10,000 drones of all types every month.
Do you believe that to be accurate?
I have no idea but it seems unlikely. I can't imagine Ukraine has the manpower to even plan 10,000 missions a month. Unless you're just flinging them in the general direction of the enemy and hoping they can do something (maybe that explains the loss rate?), planning takes extraordinary effort.
DeleteDoes Ukraine have the people, resources, and facilities to control ten thousand drones? Seems unlikely. I would think the US military would not be able to use ten thousand drones per month so how can Ukraine?
Where are they getting ten thousand drones per month? I would doubt that the entire world's production capacity is ten thousand drones per month.
That number originally came from RUSI, which of course I can’t verify. Ukraine mostly uses civilian drones from companies like DJI. So there are a lot of them, they are easy to fly, and only have 20 minutes of flight time. And they are easy to jam because it’s civilian stuff which is how you could lose so many.
Delete"easy to fly, and only have 20 minutes of flight time. And they are easy to jam"
DeleteSo what can they accomplish?
Again, I doubt the entire world's production capacity is ten thousand per month.
Where is Ukraine getting ten thousand batteries per month since each use is a one-way, one-time use?
Nothing about that number makes sense. As I've so often said, take NOTHING at face value from that conflict. Both sides are just generating propaganda packed around tiny, occasional, nuggets of truth and it's almost impossible to discern the tiny truths.
They are mostly using them as tactical drones to look over the next tree line. Some of the more expensive ones carry the grenades, but I think that is a small minority.
DeleteI think you are really underestimating the consumer drone market. DJI has most of the market and revenues of over $30 billion per year. So if you assume their average drone costs $10,000 then that is 3 million drones per year.
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/02/08/worlds-largest-drone-maker-dji-is-unfazed-by-challenges-like-us-blacklist.html
Unit sales were in the millions even 6 years ago:
https://www.vox.com/2017/4/14/14690576/drone-market-share-growth-charts-dji-forecast
And the batteries are rechargeable. Although I doubt they are getting many charges out of them before the drones get shot down/jammed!
https://store.dji.com/product/mavic-air-2-intelligent-flight-battery
"I think you are really underestimating the consumer drone market."
DeleteThe GLOBAL civilian drone market was $1.093B in 2022 according to Business Research Insights website (https://www.businessresearchinsights.com/market-reports/civilian-drone-market-100513).
If we use your assumption of $10,000 per drone, that equates to 109,000 drones PER YEAR or 9,108 per month. Compare that to the claim of 10,000 drones LOST per month.
So, I quite stand by my statement that it's highly unlikely (impossible) for Ukraine to be losing 10,000 drones per month. Even if the entire global output production was going to Ukraine, it couldn't supply 10,000 drones per month.
"And the batteries are rechargeable. "
Not when they're shot down!
I suspect that report is some kind of sub category. People registered 1.6 million drones with the FAA just in Q4 2022.
Deletehttps://www.faa.gov/foia/electronic_reading_room/uas#registrants
"I suspect that report is some kind of sub category."
DeleteIf you have a link to an authoritative source that suggests significantly greater production, please share it. Otherwise, I've got to go with what's documented.
Speaking of sub-categories (and there's no indication of that in the report I cited), kid's toy quad-copters might be counted in a production tally but would be of zero use in combat. You need a certain level of capability even for the most minor tasks. For example, I have a small quad-copter that has a nine minute battery, a 50 meter control range, and can't fly into a gentle breeze. It's fun to play with in the backyard but it would be totally useless in any combat scenario. Some company is undoubtedly producing umpteen thousand of those but they're of no use to Ukraine even for looking over the next hill.
"People registered 1.6 million drones with the FAA just in Q4 2022."
DeleteI'm not sure what you're looking at on that page. The CY 2022 Q4 spreadsheet, for example, seemed to show around 80,000 some entries FOR THE ENTIRE WORLD. It's also unclear what's being registered. For example, remote control model airplanes require a registration with the FAA to obtain a control frequency but, again, those would be of no use in combat.
Sorry, but I've got to stick with the source I cited.
I think you're also missing the larger point(s). It seems highly unlikely that Ukraine could purchase, receive, unbox, set up, and control 10,000 drones per month let alone plan 10,000 missions per month. If they can, there must be a literal mountain of discarded packaging materials alone!
Ukraine is suffering severe shortages of every type of ammunition, weapon, radios, combat rations, and every other thing you can think of but we're led to believe that they can easily purchase and receive 10,000 drones per month (more, actually, because that 10,000 is only the number lost, not the total number which would be hugely larger, one would surmise). Does that really seem plausible to you?
The entries are locations and each location can have more than one registrant. Part 349 are recreational drones weighing between 250 grams and 55 kilograms. Part 107 are drones for commercial use.
DeleteI posted links previously from a different consulting group. But you are entitled to your own opinion, obviously.
It does seem plausible because they are designed to be easy to use. And the planning is just going to be "fly over that hill and see what's there!" since most of the drones are going to tactical units.
If each drone weighed ten pounds then that is less than the weight of two fully loaded semi trucks per month.
I think most of these drones are lower end, which is part of why they lose so many.