Tensions are rising in the East China Sea with China
The Navy is deploying several P-8A Poseidon aircraft to Japan
Do you recall the April 2001 incident in which the Chinese forced down an American EP-3 aircraft? To refresh your memory, the EP-3 was operating around 70 miles from Hainan when it was intercepted by Chinese J-8 fighters. One of the fighters collided with the EP-3, damaging it to the point where it had to make an emergency landing on Hainan . The EP-3 and its crew were held until the US
We’re sending our latest, brand new aircraft to patrol the East China Sea . Does anyone see a possibility of a repeat performance? I’m sure the Chinese would love to capture a P-8 and further humiliate the US China US
I think the EP-3 incident was a a fluke as a result of the PLAA pilot trying to play chicken.
ReplyDeleteThe B-52 was probably selected for the ADIZ overflight because it is a big, rugged plane - not easy to physically push around by a fighter.
Likewis a P-8 is a really large aircraft, and likely immune to attempts to physically push around.
GAB
GAB, the actual collision may or may not have been a fluke. More importantly, though, the violation of flight procedures in international air space was not a fluke. The subsequent seizure and stripping of the aircraft was not a fluke. The pattern of harassing US ships and aircraft is not a fluke. The post is a suggestion that the pattern of harassment will likely continue and the likelihood of a similar incident is, thus, high. Hopefully, we're better prepared with combat support next time or we'll be watching the Chinese strip a brand new P-8 while we fire off strongly worded protests.
DeleteComNavOps,
DeleteI agree!
GAB
The problem with the EP-3 was that it was too heavy and slow to run from an interceptor. The P-8A is quite a bit faster than EP-3 and has a much higher service ceiling.
ReplyDeleteI am not saying a P-8A can win a tail-chase with a supersonic fighter -- but given sufficient warning, it has a much greater probability of escaping to friendly air cover.
Matt
GAB,
DeleteEP-3 and P-8A are about the same size. And air combat -- even of the 'chicken' variety -- is really more about nimbleness than mass.
The Hainan Island incident speaks very strongly as to why we need long-dwell UAS. A BAMS or Global Hawk is a lot less riskier than using a P-8A (9-10 crew) or an EP-3 (20+ crew).
Matt
"EP-3 and P-8A are about the same size."
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Wrong.
A P-8 is a much larger aircraft.
Empty a P-8 is almost twice the weight of a P-3. Loaded:
EP-3 has a max. takeoff weight of 142,000 lb (64,400 kg)
A P-8 has a max. takeoff weight of 189,200 lb (85,820 kg)
Pretty big difference.
And the Chinese version of chicken includes contact.
Since you are not going to outmanuever a fighter in a patrol aircraft, mass matters.
GAB
GAB,
DeleteEverything I've read about the Hainan Island incident indicates that it was a 'hot dog' fighter pilot who played a little too close.
We've (probably) been flying similar airborne ISR missions for the last decade plus and there's no record of a similar collision. One can surmise that ramming is probably not PLA intercept doctrine.
Regardless - causing an intentional collision between two aircraft is a lot harder than you might imagine. Particularly if the one aircraft doesn't want to be hit. The EP-3 was not particularly well know for its nimbleness or acceleration. The P-8A is.
Matt
PS- Comparing size based on maximum gross weights of the P-8A and EP-3 is erroneous. P-8A max includes weapons and stores which aren't typically carried on an ISR mission.
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ReplyDelete