tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post5168874728011677775..comments2024-03-28T07:56:09.239-07:00Comments on Navy Matters: Mk 45 5" GunComNavOpshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09669644332369727431noreply@blogger.comBlogger40125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-42459900301475939992019-08-08T17:27:52.468-07:002019-08-08T17:27:52.468-07:00"2 5" 54 guns with VlS"
Well, we d..."2 5" 54 guns with VlS"<br /><br />Well, we do have the Ticonderoga class with 2x 5" guns and VLS but we only have a limited number of them and the Navy is looking to retire them as quickly as possible.ComNavOpshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09669644332369727431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-6686099695306008132019-08-08T16:38:36.841-07:002019-08-08T16:38:36.841-07:00Why not build a ship.with the capability of an Ada...Why not build a ship.with the capability of an Adams class ddg ad far as guns are concerned 2 5" 54 guns with VlS tubed would solve dome of the shore bombardment questions and anti ship.needs for long range develope a 5" RAP round with no fancy electronic inv<br />olvedAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15452776869336234755noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-82072304257889033052019-01-02T00:16:42.366-08:002019-01-02T00:16:42.366-08:00Gun heat;
According to the Federation of American...Gun heat;<br /><br />According to the Federation of American Scientists, a sustained rate of 20 rpm can be achieved with the 5"/54. This is from 1998 and may not be valid in the 5"/62, but it does give us a reference point.<br /><br />KHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13886905588388554170noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-88442648090068362102018-12-27T15:19:04.675-08:002018-12-27T15:19:04.675-08:00Thanks Domo. That is helpful. I know with both tan...Thanks Domo. That is helpful. I know with both tanks and artillery it is a consideration when firing rapidly.Globe345https://www.blogger.com/profile/03839837937157991647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-2902457895485926082018-12-23T16:38:53.228-08:002018-12-23T16:38:53.228-08:00You stated that the LCS 57 mm gun was not somethin...You stated that the LCS 57 mm gun was not something to criticize and I demonstrated that it absolutely is since it is inaccurate and ineffective in its intended role. That's kind of the definition of something to criticize!<br /><br />Enough with this. ComNavOpshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09669644332369727431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-15801013153748092552018-12-23T15:58:41.077-08:002018-12-23T15:58:41.077-08:00"Far from the 57 mm gun being something not t..."Far from the 57 mm gun being something not to criticize, it is one of the top items to criticize!"<br /><br />What I'm saying is to keep some perspective. Is the Bofors 57mm a weaker gun than the 5 inch? Sure. It doesn't have the lethality or the range - it's basically a direct fire weapon, an upsized Bofors 40mm. But for the things that corvettes do, comparing LCS's gun with other corvettes, it's not that badly off, given that the Bofors 57mm has been one of the most popular corvette guns in the world for the last 4 decades and change. Let's face it, nobody's going to take a corvette to get into a gun duel with the Chinese Navy (well, not unless you're Malaysia and desperate :V).<br /><br />Given the fact that there are dozens of nations using this gun who don't seem to have the problems the US has had with intergration, I submit the issue is on the US side, and not with the gun itself.WIld Goosehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16911145032644199127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-28539749198048886002018-12-23T07:24:51.310-08:002018-12-23T07:24:51.310-08:00No idea. NavWeaps site lists a barrel wear of seve...No idea. NavWeaps site lists a barrel wear of several thousand rounds but makes no mention of heat issues. I've never heard of any overheat issue.ComNavOpshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09669644332369727431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-24025811820878193982018-12-23T02:39:34.958-08:002018-12-23T02:39:34.958-08:00As a rule, guns with an anti missile role are buil...As a rule, guns with an anti missile role are built lightly, especially in the barrel, to maximise rate of traverse.<br /><br />Guns without an anti missile function can be built heavier and more heat resistant.<br /><br />The UKs 4.45" naval gun had fairly poor sustained fire rate for that reason,<br /><br />Both the 76 and 5" are water cooled, but that doesn't necessarily tell us they're completely water cooled, the barrel could be cooled in one, and just the breach in another.Domohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00240964731398145995noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-46461419170428421022018-12-22T21:31:47.982-08:002018-12-22T21:31:47.982-08:00Does anyone know how long the Mk 45 can fire at 15...Does anyone know how long the Mk 45 can fire at 15 rounds per minute until it has to take a break and let the barrel cool off? I recall seeing something on the 76mm gun that said around 120 rounds in rapid succession requires half an hour after to let the barrel cool. It fires 5-10 times faster than the 5 inch, but I would still think barrel temp can become an issue.Globe345https://www.blogger.com/profile/03839837937157991647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-4114665103428323132018-12-22T15:38:14.719-08:002018-12-22T15:38:14.719-08:00The problem is that These guns basically are an ad...The problem is that These guns basically are an advanced version of a recoilless rifle with the same backblast, loading, and specialized ammunition problems. I really don't want to think about the kind of backblast you'd get from a 16" gun.<br /><br />Randall RappAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-7039874490011970342018-12-22T13:03:14.428-08:002018-12-22T13:03:14.428-08:00A 5 inch shell weighs 70lbs
There a very limited ...A 5 inch shell weighs 70lbs<br /><br />There a very limited number of times a person can lift and load a 70lb shell.<br /><br />In any sort of burst or sustained fire, you need a lot of bodies or a lot of machineryDomohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00240964731398145995noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-22890001784827497062018-12-22T12:18:51.517-08:002018-12-22T12:18:51.517-08:00"Its about the largest caliber where a shell ..."Its about the largest caliber where a shell can be loaded by a single individual as a single unit"<br /><br />That's interesting. I don't know if it's true but it's interesting. We see the exact opposite with the Zumwalt (ignore the fact that the gun/ammo has been cancelled) which has 100% automation of the entire gun/ammo handling from loading-on to storage to loading of the gun. The price the Navy paid to save a few personnel was astronomical both in terms of ship's volume (the ammo handling system dominates the entire ship) and cost. Is that worth it? I doubt it.<br /><br />The middle road is the large caliber guns of WWII which used a combination of man-loading and machine-loading.<br /><br />Unfortunately, the Navy's quest today is minimal manning which has lead, and continues to lead, to some very bad decisions.ComNavOpshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09669644332369727431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-38432990425073704292018-12-22T10:05:20.298-08:002018-12-22T10:05:20.298-08:00The 300t skjold class has a 76mm gun.
Just to fur...The 300t skjold class has a 76mm gun.<br /><br />Just to further illustrate that point<br />Domohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00240964731398145995noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-46683591370328379002018-12-22T09:37:59.189-08:002018-12-22T09:37:59.189-08:00"The current cost of an LCS with all the acco..."The current cost of an LCS with all the accounting games included and a functional module is around $700M."<br /><br />I guess that's what happens when you give the LCS essentially the same power plant as a Zumwalt.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-28538011455906833582018-12-22T09:30:11.056-08:002018-12-22T09:30:11.056-08:00I totally feel the 8in gun needs to be resurrected...I totally feel the 8in gun needs to be resurrected... But I wouldnt put it on a Burke... The extra weight and strengthening needed to use it is just more complication to an already crowded hull that should be AAW focused and already isnt getting the AMDR the Navy wants... But for a "gun" ship...sure!!!Jjabatiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15723421088164000364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-29502640626286033292018-12-22T09:19:28.606-08:002018-12-22T09:19:28.606-08:00"Comparing a Fletcher to an LCS isn't rea..."Comparing a Fletcher to an LCS isn't really comparing like to like "<br /><br />Of course it's not! It's comparing LCS crap to an excellent Fletcher. We built a ship in WWII that was the same length as the LCS, a thousand tons lighter, and gave it a mammothly larger weapons fit. We're comparing size/firepower to size/firepower and the LCS comes off horribly in the comparison. What aren't you understanding? Trying to excuse the LCS by calling it a corvette is just obfuscating.<br /><br />Even comparing the LCS to other country's corvettes results in a very bad assessment for the LCS. This isn't even debatable. <br /><br />Your attempt at a comparison of the LCS to the Flower class ignores that the LCS is around 380 ft long and 3500+ tons displacement whereas the Flower class was 205 ft and 940 tons!!!!! Talk about not comparing like and like!<br /><br />Even the Flower class had a 4" gun versus the LCS 2.2" gun!!!!! Your own - inappropriate - comparison makes clear how poor a choice the LCS 57 mm gun is.<br /><br />Far from the 57 mm gun being something not to criticize, it is one of the top items to criticize!ComNavOpshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09669644332369727431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-49598650918438223282018-12-22T09:09:28.169-08:002018-12-22T09:09:28.169-08:00" old promotional material for the Lockheed L..." old promotional material for the Lockheed LCS"<br /><br />I'm familiar with that. It was for the original proposal to Saudi Arabia.<br /><br />Yes, the LCS could have been bigger and with more firepower, HOWEVER, it would have totally negated the original concept of an affordable, small ship that could be built in large numbers. The current cost of an LCS with all the accounting games included and a functional module is around $700M. Thus, it's reasonable to assume that the largest of the proposed LCS variants would have cost around $1.5B. We're building full size Burkes for around $1.5B - $2B so the LCS still would have represented a very poor value for the dollar.<br /><br />In other words, it would have no longer been a corvette. It would have been a thin-skinned, underarmed destroyer.ComNavOpshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09669644332369727431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-62203420660169809712018-12-22T08:44:30.024-08:002018-12-22T08:44:30.024-08:00@ComNavOps: Comparing a Fletcher to an LCS isn'...@ComNavOps: Comparing a Fletcher to an LCS isn't really comparing like to like though. A Flower-class corvette would be a more appropriate comparison. :V my point was it's a corvette carrying a corvette gun that other corvettes have used. Gun-wise, it's not that worse off from other corvettes in the present day. Of course 57mm is inadequate for shore bombardment, but then you're not supposed to use corvettes for shore bombardment, not unless you're really desperate (or Malaysia. :V).WIld Goosehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16911145032644199127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-29917484720888687522018-12-22T05:23:07.612-08:002018-12-22T05:23:07.612-08:00I noticed that on old promotional material for the...I noticed that on old promotional material for the Lockheed LCS that they gave 3 ship lengths with 3 different guns. The smallest is the existing design, the next up was a 76mm which is what Saudi Arabia is buying, and the final with the longest hull was a 5". The longer versions also all up-gunned the VLS battery. So the Navy could have had a relatively well armed corvette (albeit thin skinned) and still had room for their precious modules, and more fuel for range. <br /><br />Littorally or Figurativelyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18163975830269552279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-44428995105274732782018-12-22T04:22:55.970-08:002018-12-22T04:22:55.970-08:00My current favorite "large gun/small boat&quo...My current favorite "large gun/small boat" is the Patria NEMO on a riverine boat. It is a mortar but still cool.<br />https://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/the-patria-nemo-mortar-boat-is-small-and-fast-with-a-hu-1666492358<br />Imagine a mothership tending a bunch of ships like this but with 155mm guns.michael woltmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16719963700565405955noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-87301931067655703872018-12-22T03:59:41.795-08:002018-12-22T03:59:41.795-08:00The RArefaction waVE gunN (RAVEN) program technolo...The RArefaction waVE gunN (RAVEN) program technology could also be applied to a 155mm naval gun, the Mk 71 8 inch gun, or a new build 16 inch naval gun. "50% cannon weight reduction, 40% reduction in barrel heating, and 80% recoil reduction compared to current<br />weapon systems" would allow for larger caliber gun systems to be placed on smaller ships.<br />http://proceedings.ndia.org/0610/10231.pdf<br /><br />https://ndiastorage.blob.core.usgovcloudapi.net/ndia/2010/armament/WednesdayLandmarkAMikeBixler.pdf<br /><br />https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a504316.pdfmichael woltmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16719963700565405955noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-36904481808039619572018-12-22T01:38:31.854-08:002018-12-22T01:38:31.854-08:00The lack of commonality between naval and land gun...The lack of commonality between naval and land guns always surprises me. While there are obviously corrosion and stabilisation issues, these can be overcome and commonality with land guns would dramatically reduce the ammunition cost. Stick a gyro-stabilised platform on a LCS and weld a M109A6 to it!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-25222274796624382832018-12-21T17:19:02.070-08:002018-12-21T17:19:02.070-08:00"Of all the things to criticise LCS for, the ..."Of all the things to criticise LCS for, the Bofors 57mm isn't one of them."<br /><br />The Fletcher class destroyer was 2 ft shorter, a thousand tons lighter, and carried 5x 5" guns so, yes, I think it's fair to criticize the LCS for a single 57 mm gun as its main gun.<br /><br />Beyond that, the gun simply doesn't work. It has a systematic inaccuracy that has been documented by DOT&E and has a further inaccuracy due to vibration of the ship when at speed.<br /><br />The gun is also ineffective in the anti-swarm role for which it was intended because it has no stopping power. We've covered this extensively in past posts. Hint: dwell time.<br />ComNavOpshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09669644332369727431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-83777775430078177252018-12-21T16:36:43.705-08:002018-12-21T16:36:43.705-08:00My opinion on the choice of the 5" gun is tha...My opinion on the choice of the 5" gun is that it was for the same reason that 120mm-125mm guns are where tanks have topped out. Its about the largest caliber where a shell can be loaded by a single individual as a single unit (the projectile and propellant are together in 1 cartridge). Consider that one of the modifications to the Mod 4 in addition to the longer barrel, was the provision for double ramming, since the ERGM was going to have to be loaded as 2 parts. To maintain the higher rates for antiair and anti-boat, you need a single load cycle. This may change as autoloading mechanisms become more common and reliable.<br /><br />Randall RappAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-7757362382759812042018-12-21T15:06:32.452-08:002018-12-21T15:06:32.452-08:00Of all the things to criticise LCS for, the Bofors...Of all the things to criticise LCS for, the Bofors 57mm isn't one of them. It's a corvette gun for doing corvette things, with a rate of fire a hundred times higher of the 5". The things it's meant to engage with the gun - pirate skiffs, bognammers, small boats - are things that'll be just as fucked up being hit with 57mm or 127mm. WIld Goosehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16911145032644199127noreply@blogger.com