tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post4366371596928214976..comments2024-03-28T07:56:09.239-07:00Comments on Navy Matters: Attrition Warfare - You Can't Avoid ItComNavOpshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09669644332369727431noreply@blogger.comBlogger59125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-60178400824589450022018-03-06T06:29:18.299-08:002018-03-06T06:29:18.299-08:00Don't need to seek asylum in Canada. Just nee...Don't need to seek asylum in Canada. Just need to get a doctor to sign a "bone spurs" deferment. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-80900422802510192632018-03-03T12:58:19.568-08:002018-03-03T12:58:19.568-08:00May be talking out of turn but when I was in the U...May be talking out of turn but when I was in the USAF in Britain our life expectancy was measured in days not years if a war with the Soviets broke out at that time in the early 80s not exactly m7ch time to get a b7nch of draftees ready for action it m8ght still be the same if not shorter Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-5881256747525061382018-03-03T08:58:31.015-08:002018-03-03T08:58:31.015-08:00Draft dodgers got a lot of publicity but, as I rec...Draft dodgers got a lot of publicity but, as I recall, they were never a significant portion. Off the top of my head, I seem to recall around 700,000 draftees for Vietnam and 10,000 or so fleeing to Canada.<br /><br />I would assume the same might happen in a war with China.<br /><br />Every generation is considered weaker than the one before it, by the one before it! They all seem to turn out about the same, in the end.ComNavOpshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09669644332369727431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-22351472592842083952018-03-02T23:48:05.190-08:002018-03-02T23:48:05.190-08:00a real war with china or russia will certainly bri...a real war with china or russia will certainly bring back the draft , just wondering how you perceive today's american sedentary youth in the face of getting drafted into real war , will they escape their duty and seek asylum in canada like the vietnam generation?buntalanlucuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02058846205282464955noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-63024299344016780722018-03-02T19:38:00.607-08:002018-03-02T19:38:00.607-08:00Thanks I seem to remember the B52 also carried a d...Thanks I seem to remember the B52 also carried a d3coy drone called the quail if memory serves me correctly Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-81274146532776012852018-03-02T10:04:44.543-08:002018-03-02T10:04:44.543-08:00"Apologies for being snarky in a different no..."Apologies for being snarky in a different note what's to keep a nation from deploying drones that mimic real fighters or bombers to "soak" up the available missiles"<br /><br />The snarky reply was directed to "John", not you! You're fine.<br /><br />There is nothing wrong with deploying decoy drones. In fact, the Navy uses the ALE-50 series towed decoys to do just that. They cost something on the order of $20K as opposed to several million dollar UAV drones.ComNavOpshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09669644332369727431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-32265213133039570592018-03-02T09:28:10.477-08:002018-03-02T09:28:10.477-08:00Apologies for being snarky in a different note wha...Apologies for being snarky in a different note what's to keep a nation from deploying drones that mimic real fighters or bombers to "soak" up the available missiles and gun ammo on any fighter or ship etc.seems logical and quite possible is a cheap solution for attrition warfareAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-64420388189873692442018-03-02T08:56:32.621-08:002018-03-02T08:56:32.621-08:00M.K., what is your assessment of the Soviet Union&...M.K., what is your assessment of the Soviet Union's Cold War military philosophy of throwing divisions at NATO defenses to create breakthroughs? Would you call that attrition warfare?ComNavOpshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09669644332369727431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-89742271763646373432018-03-02T08:41:16.710-08:002018-03-02T08:41:16.710-08:00John, Attrition warfare + AI drone swarm + never t...John, Attrition warfare + AI drone swarm + never throw away working olds. All topics CNO covered separately, but here Chinese tied them together.<br /><br />http://www.scramble.nl/orbats/china/summary/types<br /><br />About 1/3rd way down, there are 200 of J6W(Mig-19) converted to drone deep strike bomber.<br /><br />I think most of these 2000 oldies will be put to use this way, minus the valuable pilots.Timnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-47521055827134399782018-03-02T06:42:26.417-08:002018-03-02T06:42:26.417-08:00"Russia's population is little more than ..."Russia's population is little more than half that of the old Soviet Union"<br /><br />You are completely wrong. See my comment reply to "John" below.ComNavOpshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09669644332369727431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-69620762053699960682018-03-02T06:41:14.152-08:002018-03-02T06:41:14.152-08:00JFW, read my comment reply to "John". Y...JFW, read my comment reply to "John". You're completely wrong about this.ComNavOpshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09669644332369727431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-85141273725946329372018-03-02T06:38:56.641-08:002018-03-02T06:38:56.641-08:00This is one of the dumber comments I've seen i...This is one of the dumber comments I've seen in a while.<br /><br />It is best not to comment if you can’t do so from a position of knowledge. Such is the case with your uninformed yet snarky comment. So, you have concluded that having less than 326 M people somehow precludes attrition warfare? Well, let’s check history and see if you’re right.<br /><br />Russia/Soviet employed massive attrition warfare against the German invasion in WWII. What was the population of Russia around 1940? It was around 170M.<br /><br />The Soviet Union’s military philosophy during the Cold War was one of pure, brute strength, attrition warfare. They planned to throw divisions at NATO defenses in pure attrition warfare and then exploit the breakthroughs created. This was human wave attacks in the form of tanks and vehicles. What was the population of the Soviet Union? It was 290M in 1991 when it collapsed.<br /><br />So, it appears that your comment is not only wrong but absurdly wrong. What if a country had an even smaller population? Would they still employ attrition warfare? Well, in WWII Japan often employed human wave attacks (so called bonsai attacks). What was Japan’s population in 1940? It was around 73M. I guess they didn't know that they couldn't conduct attrition warfare.<br /><br />It appears that history is saying that you are completely wrong. The next time you want to make a snarky comment you should at least attempt to make one that is correct.<br /><br />Know your history.<br />ComNavOpshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09669644332369727431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-49441732908800692782018-03-02T06:30:48.976-08:002018-03-02T06:30:48.976-08:00The Japanese experience in WWII with the kamikaze ...The Japanese experience in WWII with the kamikaze pilots is good example many died in both sides for a lost cause use less sacrifice Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-3584563106120904322018-03-02T06:28:06.599-08:002018-03-02T06:28:06.599-08:00Thanks for the info much appreciated Thanks for the info much appreciated Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-19490755869603310482018-03-02T06:11:23.600-08:002018-03-02T06:11:23.600-08:00That's Confederate cavalry General Nathan Bedf...That's Confederate cavalry General Nathan Bedford Forrest. Most likely he actually said it in plain correct English. He had no professional military training; he was a very successful horse trader when the war broke out. He tried to enlist and donate a bunch of horses. He was told his business experience would make good leadership qualities and with such a large contribution of badly needed horses, he deserved to be a cavalry officer. One of his innovations was to take "obsolete" smooth bore muskets sitting in storage, cut the barrels shorter, and load them with "buck-n-ball" to use as shotguns. Was very effective for horse mounted, rapid moving, skirmish tactics. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-69585792559834715822018-03-01T19:59:17.649-08:002018-03-01T19:59:17.649-08:00Population of the Russian Federation: 145 Million....Population of the Russian Federation: 145 Million.<br />Population of the USA: 326 Million.<br /><br />Similarly with China the one child policy has created a nation far less willing to see that one child sacrificed. (and with a markedly small cohort of military age for a general population of their size)<br /><br />Furthermore having 2,000 shitty old fighters is one thing (can they get a lock on an F22? or fly high enough to engage it?) but having 2,000 trained pilots ready to make the most of what they've got, and being willing to sacrifice the investment in their training?<br /><br />Know your enemy.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05559923861773775748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-74350456469206143242018-03-01T19:20:21.304-08:002018-03-01T19:20:21.304-08:00I'm reminded of the civil war General that sta...I'm reminded of the civil war General that stated he who gets there "Firstest with the mostest" usually wins weird to say but it still holds true Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-1079892825114164542018-03-01T18:01:12.613-08:002018-03-01T18:01:12.613-08:00Excellent comment.Excellent comment.ComNavOpshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09669644332369727431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-79087131807633983482018-03-01T15:37:16.272-08:002018-03-01T15:37:16.272-08:00Our modern techno-phile society has a very broad d...Our modern techno-phile society has a very broad definition of "obsolete". If something is not the newest and most high tech, it gets called "obsolete". A traditional understanding meant no longer useful. Let's say we get into a conflict with China? Many of our top tier assets would be deployed to that theater. That means diverting those assets away from other places. Will we let Somali pirates or Iranian gunboats have their way because we diverted our ships away to deal with China? If we still had our obsolete ships available to return to duty, they could handle the lower level threats. So many people get the impression that all wartime action is front-line, where you need top tier weapon systems; but there will still be lower level threats which can be handled by "obsolete" assets.<br /><br />MM-13BAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-48131005127030308502018-03-01T12:10:46.519-08:002018-03-01T12:10:46.519-08:00I think they'd have a hard time pulling off a ...I think they'd have a hard time pulling off a good attrition war today. Russia has a huge demographic problem right now. They have 144 million people, less then half of our population. And a significant portion of that population is older:<br /><br />https://www.indexmundi.com/russia/age_structure.html<br /><br />Of course, on the other side of that: We'd be on the end of a huge supply line. And most European militaries are a mess. <br /><br />JFWJFWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16095723023404412328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-74632158293360346382018-03-01T11:59:30.078-08:002018-03-01T11:59:30.078-08:00Well, there you have it! There was no need for Am...Well, there you have it! There was no need for America to have entered the war. Russia and China had things well in hand and were on the verge of total victory.ComNavOpshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09669644332369727431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-1632546960546398692018-03-01T11:01:21.375-08:002018-03-01T11:01:21.375-08:00What is your source that Russia would have lost th...What is your source that Russia would have lost the war had America not joined? American historian David Glantz of the U.S. Army Command and General Staff College has written in his book When Titans Clashed: How the Red Army Stopped Hitler that the Eastern Front was unwinnable for the Germans by Stalingrad in 1942, before any major effort by the United States to fight the Nazis or significant lend-lease aid arriving.<br /><br /> I will give the US credit for sending huge quantities of supplies, trucks, and combat equipment starting in mid-1943, as that aid sped up the Red Army's advance into Germany and saved many Russian lives. I will also give credit to the United Kingdom for destroying much of the Luftwaffe in 1940 and forcing the Germans to allocate troops to secondary theaters like North Africa instead of focusing solely on the Eastern Front. Perhaps Churchill's willingness to fight did save Russia, although it would be hard to have a definitive answer on that. <br /><br />In China, while the Japanese made major gains in 1937 and 1938, their effort had ground down to a stalemate in early 1939, and by the winter of 1939/1940, Nationalist China was able to launch large scale counterattacks that destroyed multiple Japanese armies. This all happened before America joined the war and supplied a small squadron of fighters to aid China. The Chinese people were more than capable of fighting the Japanese without American help, although America did bring about Japan's final defeat and surrender. Pyotrnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-28734910769833713712018-03-01T10:05:06.870-08:002018-03-01T10:05:06.870-08:00Let me remind you that had America not entered the...Let me remind you that had America not entered the war, Russia would be a state of Germany today and China would be part of Japan. That's the cold, hard reality. <br /><br />America fought Germany and Japan simultaneously and saved Russia and China, to our detriment today.ComNavOpshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09669644332369727431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-91546427671605951912018-03-01T09:26:35.407-08:002018-03-01T09:26:35.407-08:00This is the reason why I have been a proponent of ...This is the reason why I have been a proponent of Admiral Zumwalt's high/low mix procurement strategy. We don't need every destroyer to be an Aegis equipped Burke. We could build a lot more if we built something more like a Knox or Perry to fill out the numbers. If we build all carriers to Ford standard, we either won't be able to afford enough carriers or we won't be able to afford anything else. Same for aircraft. The F-35 is so costly because it has to have every mission capability. Build some cheaper single-mission aircraft to fill out numbers. Reporposing old hardware a la Israel is another great idea. CDR Chipnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-2210878432934979652018-03-01T09:17:20.982-08:002018-03-01T09:17:20.982-08:00He also confirmed that they're developing a nu...He also confirmed that they're developing a nuclear powered UUV with intercontinental range that is faster than any submarine or surface vessel.Storm Shadowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10999164214935172607noreply@blogger.com