tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post3232198115349899867..comments2024-03-28T07:56:09.239-07:00Comments on Navy Matters: Heading Off The TracksComNavOpshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09669644332369727431noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-54727907413439328542019-11-01T07:52:28.584-07:002019-11-01T07:52:28.584-07:00Perfect illustration of where I am coming from. h...Perfect illustration of where I am coming from. https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2019/november/shoestring-logistics-lessons-guadalcanalAndyMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05176205300516191412noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-73045641008395853212019-10-02T19:32:35.487-07:002019-10-02T19:32:35.487-07:00"Similarly, today, we aren't exercising f..."Similarly, today, we aren't exercising full electronic warfare, comms denial, GPS loss, opposed landings, landings from 25-50 miles out as our doctrine calls for, F-35s against other stealth aircraft (simulated Chinese J-20s), etc. History, indeed, seems to be forgotten."<br /><br />The Air Force, at least, seems to finally be taking seriously the issue of fighting stealth aircraft; the 65th Aggressor Squadron is being reactivated with F-35s to serve as a stealth aggressor squadron (previously they were an F-15 squadron simulating Su-27s, before being stood down), and there are reports and pictures of F-117s seen flying in Nellis airspace, wearing aggressor camo.<br /><br />Meanwhile the USN is... apparently not making any effort towards stealth aggressors, be they ship or aircraft.<br /><br />What a reversal from Nam, when it was the Air Force that was disinterested in aggressor training and the Navy that was actively conducting aggressor training.WIld Goosehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16911145032644199127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-40428164401153157842019-10-02T04:55:56.149-07:002019-10-02T04:55:56.149-07:00Example of budget money going to Marines
May 2019...Example of budget money going to Marines<br /><br />May 2019 Marines awarded $47.59 million Other Transaction Authority funding to Raytheon to integrate Kongsberg Naval Strike Missile with the MH-60R Seahawk, two launchers, one each side of a/c. <br /><br />Based on Kongsberg contract to fit the NSM on the Indian Navy new buy of 24 MH-60R's (State Department authorized sale April 2019, $2.6 billion)Nickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12567148391327455726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-50121900883653876942019-10-01T18:20:56.612-07:002019-10-01T18:20:56.612-07:00"the US Army wants to get into the island hop..."the US Army wants to get into the island hopping game too! … Just about the money or something else going on?"<br /><br />It's always about the money - budget money, in this case. We saw the same thing in Desert Storm. The services insisted on equal participation rather than insisting on the best military outcome. Schwarzkopf had a hard time balancing the demands for participation against military needs. The fear among the services was that if they hadn't participated, robustly, that Congress would start asking why they were funding them to such a large extent.<br /><br />I think the same fear is at play here. China looks like a Navy/Air Force war, primarily, and the Army/Marines are afraid that Congress will start cutting their budget because they see a reduced need for them. Thus, the Army/Marines are trying to move in on the Navy/Air Force territory.ComNavOpshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09669644332369727431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-29827561465291779202019-10-01T17:16:31.409-07:002019-10-01T17:16:31.409-07:00Looks like the US Army wants to get into the islan...Looks like the US Army wants to get into the island hopping game too! As someone else posted/mentioned, why are the services stepping on each other toes?!?! Just about the money or something else going on?<br /><br />https://taskandpurpose.com/army-rapid-deployment-western-pacificNICOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14567491909555759918noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-12982734528939783362019-10-01T09:19:00.398-07:002019-10-01T09:19:00.398-07:00I think we have two major problems:
1) Nobody'...I think we have two major problems:<br />1) Nobody's mission is well-defined, and the Marines in particular seem to be in search of a mission; and<br />2) We have fought so many limited wars that we aren't trying to win, that we have very much dulled the sword. We haven't done anything remotely approaching a peer war since WWII.<br /><br />I have my own thoughts about what to do about both of those, but that would be a much longer post.CDR Chiphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16596017728508279652noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-81190726099328684752019-10-01T08:12:49.974-07:002019-10-01T08:12:49.974-07:00I'm a little concerned I may need to brush up ...I'm a little concerned I may need to brush up my Farsi. Between carriers staying out of the Gulf and CENTCOM leaving Al Udeid (temporarily) things are not boding well.<br /><br />https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/23/us/politics/warship-iran.html<br /><br />https://www.stripes.com/news/air-force/air-force-shifts-middle-east-command-center-from-qatar-to-south-carolina-1.601074<br />Georgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17731178888696691472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-3782861217061275862019-10-01T02:28:49.163-07:002019-10-01T02:28:49.163-07:00It is all very depressing.
I don’t think there wil...It is all very depressing.<br />I don’t think there will be any real change until there is a “proper fight” and all the short coming we have been discussing recently become obvious to the man the street.<br />Unfortunately, the gap between:<br />a. A relatively easy win where the US has overwhelming numbers of kit/personnel/technology (eg Iraq) and<br />b. A war / battle where it is too late and the US is defeated.<br />Is relatively small.<br />In case a, the top brass will just believe / say everything is hunky dory, in case b. we all lean Mandarin.<br />Question:<br />Is the “best” we can hope for that China invades Taiwan, US responds, make a complete “balls up” of it and retreats. Jo public is so p***ed of with the military elite that there are changes made before the “main event” with China?<br />Mr Shedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12736787154023573364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-30444514817028661402019-09-30T18:08:08.845-07:002019-09-30T18:08:08.845-07:00
(Don McCollor)..another costly lesson (provided b...<br />(Don McCollor)..another costly lesson (provided by the Brits in the Falklands)...Once troops crowded on a ship are close to shore...get them off - NOW...<br />...[by the way] in the African Torch landings in WW2, the new Army troopship Thomas Stone was torpedoed and left drifting with a corvette for protection...she began launching her landing craft before the convoy was out of sight - a day early and 140 miles at sea...Don McCollorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18028324869570493102noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-5624403497006430102019-09-30T17:42:18.341-07:002019-09-30T17:42:18.341-07:00Don, quite right. Interestingly, we actually did ...Don, quite right. Interestingly, we actually did a full scale landing rehearsal but we didn't rehearse jungle fighting or night naval combat, among other failings.<br /><br />Similarly, today, we aren't exercising full electronic warfare, comms denial, GPS loss, opposed landings, landings from 25-50 miles out as our doctrine calls for, F-35s against other stealth aircraft (simulated Chinese J-20s), etc. History, indeed, seems to be forgotten. <br /><br />I find it ironic in the extreme that the Marines have forgotten their roots given that it's their obsessive fixation on controlling the naval ships and air force as a result of the Guadalcanal 'abandonment' that is driving much of this.ComNavOpshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09669644332369727431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-67845558056946557812019-09-30T17:04:33.349-07:002019-09-30T17:04:33.349-07:00(Don McCollor)...at Guadalcanal, there was inexper...(Don McCollor)...at Guadalcanal, there was inexperience and mistakes...an expensive learning experience..."The Battle of the Five Sitting Ducks" and the "Night of the Battleships" (not US)...history always seems to be forgotten...Don McCollorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18028324869570493102noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-21156183353869634022019-09-30T16:56:22.895-07:002019-09-30T16:56:22.895-07:00CNO, you forgot about SOF, the we are way more eli...CNO, you forgot about SOF, the we are way more elite light infantry than the Marines. SOF has their own trade show, they must be a separate branch of the USM.scottghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14096280411006769265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-62200697241128234182019-09-30T16:28:56.257-07:002019-09-30T16:28:56.257-07:00"take that concept and scale it up"
Tha..."take that concept and scale it up"<br /><br />That's like saying we'll train a squad and that will scale up to an army. This is the kind of misguided, idiotic thinking that passes for military thought from our uniformed leadership today.<br /><br />"Also a small force ashore contributing to the sea battle. Also present at Guadalcanal."<br /><br />You might want to review the Guadalcanal order of battle. We landed an entire Marine division of 16,000 men. We used an invasion fleet of around 80 ships. An additional 30,000-40,000 men were eventually landed as reinforcements and we threw dozens of additional ships into the battle. "A small force ashore"???? Pretty much the exact opposite!ComNavOpshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09669644332369727431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-67895404872412691202019-09-30T15:16:52.588-07:002019-09-30T15:16:52.588-07:00Well, the USNI article you reference mentions seve...Well, the USNI article you reference mentions several times that they plan to take that concept and scale it up. I take that to mean a little force all over the place. They were also focused on operating in an austere environment, which I take to mean generating the ability to project power from the middle of nowhere. Sounds a lot like Guadalcanal in the beginning to me. There is a Proceedings article now out talking about Coastwatchers deployed from subs. Also a small force ashore contributing to the sea battle. Also present at Guadalcanal. AndyMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05176205300516191412noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-43680299274253187782019-09-30T14:11:59.573-07:002019-09-30T14:11:59.573-07:00You see no difference between the Marines talking ...You see no difference between the Marines talking about small units zipping around the littorals and the enormous Guadalcanal campaign?????ComNavOpshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09669644332369727431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-50091247528246918282019-09-30T13:57:08.255-07:002019-09-30T13:57:08.255-07:00Don't forget the Marines can skip the beach en...Don't forget the Marines can skip the beach entirely and come back to grab it later. Also, to me, they are describing nothing different conceptually than the Cactus Air Force.AndyMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05176205300516191412noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-10593153523762835212019-09-30T12:38:04.042-07:002019-09-30T12:38:04.042-07:00Oh I absolutely agree...and crossing lines of resp...Oh I absolutely agree...and crossing lines of responsibility shouldnt be happening. But I think that those two factors are in play nonetheless...Jjabatiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15723421088164000364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-89043008636195822192019-09-30T12:30:08.852-07:002019-09-30T12:30:08.852-07:00It's really an admission: forget hitting a bea...It's really an admission: forget hitting a beach, anything with an opposition would be too much. Disaster relief with some peace keeping is the future of USMC, they pretty much are saying it in between the lines.....the whole concept is beyond ridiculous. An amphib and a DDG? Some small connectors? Those are all targets!!! Not going to survive 5 minutes against a peer! Sh#t, they wont survive 5 minutes against any country operating a sub...there was no mention of air dominance, air superiority,ground 2 air defense,etc... SO how does that work out? No mention of F35 going ashore? Did USMC give up on that idea...oh wait, you dont need air superiority when you do peacekeeping, probably why it wasnt mentioned....I could keep on going on the stupidity but it's obvious to all what's going at a once proud institution. <br /><br />It really rejoins what I've been saying about USN: forget MCM, it's dead and just about buried. ASW is probably already marginal on surface ships, it will be relegated to side mission for P8s and subs and if they are spending so much time on ISR, how good is their ASW? We will just keep seeing missions go to the wayside for USN and USMC....NICOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14567491909555759918noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-63862244544382955102019-09-30T12:24:02.484-07:002019-09-30T12:24:02.484-07:00"I see where other services feel that they ma..."I see where other services feel that they may need to expand into the Navys traditional areas of responsibility to grow their ability to fulfill their own mission/defense"<br /><br />The problem is that this leads to each service trying to establish itself as the sole warfighter. The Marines, not content with just amphibious operations (or whatever they think their mission is today) or worried about the Navy's ability to win the sea war, attempt to take over the sea war and become a complete, one-stop, warfighting organization (they've already built themselves a small air force!).<br /><br />We have one, single military, not multiple militaries. Each service has been given a role and responsibility within the one, single US military. Trying to have four complete warfighting services just promotes duplication and wasted money. If a service truly feels that another service is failing then that's a discussion and remedy that has to occur at the Secretary level.ComNavOpshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09669644332369727431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-811950590758582982019-09-30T11:50:37.671-07:002019-09-30T11:50:37.671-07:00It seems as if its a money grab by the Marines to ...It seems as if its a money grab by the Marines to get into the anti-ship business. I think the Army was doing the same with some supergun of some sort that has "maritime capabilities".<br />And while much of it sounds like the battle of budgets, part of it may be that the other services feel that the Navy isnt capable or prepared for a major conflict, and are trying to assume some roles due to lack of faith in the Navy. It kinda makes sense that the Marines would want to be able to defend themselves from enemy fleet units, ala'Guadalcanal.....<br />Note im not defending any of the buzzword garbage, or the concepts yoy mentioned. Its idiocy!! But I see where other services feel that they may need to expand into the Navys traditional areas of responsibility to grow their ability to fulfill their own mission/defense, and if they get a few more bucks in their budget too, theyre not gonna complain...<br /><br />Jjabatiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15723421088164000364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-10952909274048972052019-09-30T11:23:05.665-07:002019-09-30T11:23:05.665-07:00Begin with the end in mind...Begin with the end in mind...That army guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18371740407141453702noreply@blogger.com