tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post2495552562389777172..comments2024-03-28T07:56:09.239-07:00Comments on Navy Matters: Battle Damage Design LessonsComNavOpshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09669644332369727431noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-12634499208862125382018-06-18T10:23:44.722-07:002018-06-18T10:23:44.722-07:00Present day ships like the Burkes have coffin rack...Present day ships like the Burkes have coffin racks, that is the rack has a locker under the mattress where you lift up the top plate and access a large area. Usually you will often have each rack getting a stand up locker near your rack which is often used for dress uniforms and shoes. Some of the top racks don't get a coffin rack since there is piping or vents above which does not allow a coffin rack, they will often get two or three smaller lockers. <br /><br />The set up for the racks are a mattress, a sheet over the mattress, a pillow at the head end, a folded blanket at the foot end and I often had a spare sheet also folded over the blanket. <br /><br />The problem for this is that all these items are loose and can end up being debris. I have seen pictures of some ships where they have two straps which hold down the pillow and blanket ends preventing them from floating away. This does not help much at night but during the day it would help with damage control.<br /><br />Another item that is useful for debris is a small bag about the size of a gym bag which is issued to each rack and straps onto the rack where small personnel items can be kept while at the same time controlling their movement. I don’t remember what they are called but they were Navy issued items. However not all ships are issued them <br /><br />One big problem is getting the ships to follow and use these items. One time where it is easy is during morning inspection of berthing by the XO, however it might be helpful to have another inspection at Taps and have someone like the Command Master Chief walk through the berthing and make sure that items are secure. That way the crew would understand it’s a command priority<br /><br />Another thing that can turn into debis is the crews uniforms when they go to sleep, The crew sleep in their underware and hang their uniforms on the outside of their racks so they are ready for use in case of Watch or GQ. The crew is not allowed to sleep in their uniforms. So some arrangement of a place their present uniforms and boots securely would be useful in preventing these uniforms becoming debris<br /><br />You might say why not put the uniforms inside the lockers when you sleep but for example my lockers were pretty full of extra stuff due to being on a long deployment where I might not be able to get a new uniform or other item I needed. The ships do have a ships store but selection is limited. <br /> <br />DJFnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-48995322292616855272018-06-18T08:30:04.349-07:002018-06-18T08:30:04.349-07:00"is it possible the pump injested some FOD ge..."is it possible the pump injested some FOD generated from the collision?"<br /><br />I have no idea but if that did occur then the pump is a poor design for the purpose. In any flooding situation, the water being pumped will contain debris and the pump should be designed to deal with it (intake screen?). Maybe someone with better knowledge of these pumps can enlighten us?ComNavOpshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09669644332369727431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-24648622548735511902018-06-18T08:27:49.380-07:002018-06-18T08:27:49.380-07:00Captain Steve, excellent comment and thanks for sh...Captain Steve, excellent comment and thanks for sharing your thoughts on this. You seem to have much more of a combat readiness mentality than is typical today and I heartily approve!ComNavOpshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09669644332369727431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-17392828021418644792018-06-18T08:23:33.653-07:002018-06-18T08:23:33.653-07:00Great comment and thanks for that insight. Do you...Great comment and thanks for that insight. Do you have any other ideas about better securing against debris? Could lockers be built into/onto the structure of the compartment? Welded, as opposed to nut/bolt? Maybe horizontal lockers integrated into the base of each rack as opposed to external, stand alone?<br /><br />What do you think of the level of flammables on a Burke? Fire did not occur in the recent collisions but that's always a concern in battle damage.<br /><br />If you were desigining the berthing spaces, what would you do differently, as regards damage mitigation and survivability?ComNavOpshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09669644332369727431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-28030089723902482672018-06-18T08:11:20.829-07:002018-06-18T08:11:20.829-07:00Racks need to be with integral lockers and well fa...Racks need to be with integral lockers and well fastened to the deck and bulkheads for crew spaces. Transom bunks, also well fastened for CPO and officers. Any other appurtenances (e.g.bulkhead/standing lockers) must be fastened to the deck AND bulkhead securely--angle irons are a good way to do this.Collateral, especially unofficial additions must be rigorously controlled (inspections daily hint hint)and ruthlessly suppressed (This is what XOs used to be for). Stainless steel is the way to go for construction and fastening material. It goes (I trust) without saying that all compartments must be policed for loose/unsecured gear regularly (Remember lucky bags?)and trash collected and emptied regularly. I suspect that plastic is not, at least for now, viable because of toxic fume and other considerations, though sturdy fiberglass for some applications might be. <br />"Personalizing" spaces, however attractive to imagined morale considerations, must be controlled within the foregoing strictures. NAVSEA (Who really in its little steel heart never stopped being BuShips) has good published guidance on all this, that guidance just needs to be read, understood and followed.<br />I get it that Burkes are more stable than Adams DDGs; but the sea is an unforgiving mistress--prepare for her worst (not what you've experienced or expect) or you are in peril--and your people too through your own negligence.<br /><br />OK. Old Salt rant off-- but I meant every word.Captain Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17297301009511642108noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-4192154468172787222018-06-18T06:36:24.265-07:002018-06-18T06:36:24.265-07:00Oops it should read 1/4 20 not 1/2 20. A half inc...Oops it should read 1/4 20 not 1/2 20. A half inch nut and bolt would work much betterDJFnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-47579049379639867252018-06-18T06:30:40.509-07:002018-06-18T06:30:40.509-07:00Part of the problem is the Burke stability. My fi...Part of the problem is the Burke stability. My first ship was a Adams Class Destroyer which was notorious for rolling badly in any seas. So we tied down everything My next two ships were more stable and my last ship was a Burke. I was Divisional LPO and so when we got underway the first time I went around the Division spaces and made sure everything was tied down. The more junior enlisted in my Division who had been underway many times looked at this strangely. When we got underway the ships was very stable even when we hit bad weather and much of my effort was not needed. <br /><br /><br />As to securing things better the racks are pretty secure and I don't think anything could stop their movement once the ship is hit and the side of the ship is pushed in which will then move the racks<br /><br />The smaller lockers on the other hand are not secured very well and mostly held by angle iron which are tack welded to the bulkheads and frames and have 1/4 20 nuts and bolts holding the lockers to the angle iron. 1/2 20 nuts and bolts are small and often have small or no washers which means that under pressure they can be pulled through the thin sheet metal of the Aluminum sides of the locker. So larger bolts with larger Washers would help, along with frames made from something stronger then angle iron tack welded in placeDJFnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-56385272868890210962018-06-18T05:44:42.529-07:002018-06-18T05:44:42.529-07:00"an insidious, creeping mentality that this i..."an insidious, creeping mentality that this is NOT a warship but some-kind of low grade cruise ship"<br /><br />Excellent! I think you're spot on.ComNavOpshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09669644332369727431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-19249340418990276652018-06-17T19:16:11.911-07:002018-06-17T19:16:11.911-07:00I wonder (never served in the Navy) if these long ...I wonder (never served in the Navy) if these long deployments create? an insidious, creeping mentality that this is NOT a warship but some-kind of low grade cruise ship that just happens to have some weapons onboard (that never get used or trained on...) <br /><br />CNO always brings up we should have MISSIONS and not long deployments/cruises and I've started to wonder if one consequence of these long deployments with little to no action, what kind of real military training gets done?, the people onboard are naturally NOT prepared, everything becomes routine! <br /><br />I understand there should be some creature comforts and training gear, what I'm talking about is the MINDSET that let the situation get to the point that not 1 but 2 US Navy ships collided with civilian ships and the crews had to fight thru their own debris to get to safety!...forget that these ships were probably damaged to the point they were mission killed, that's another topic....NICOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14567491909555759918noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-58996855157161471152018-06-17T17:57:03.381-07:002018-06-17T17:57:03.381-07:00The Sheffield Captain (Salt)was a career submarine...The Sheffield Captain (Salt)was a career submariner and his XO was a helicopter officer, both with little surface ship experience. The 2 senior officers in the Ops room were found negligent by the enquiry but not court martialed.<br /><br />Its different but similar to the issues raised by CNO here for the 7th fleet destroyers.Ztev Konradhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06553128132098513643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-85570468405559495152018-06-17T14:16:39.747-07:002018-06-17T14:16:39.747-07:00Do you have any suggestions for better ways to con...Do you have any suggestions for better ways to construct or arrange racks and lockers?ComNavOpshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09669644332369727431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-9958757566450665442018-06-17T07:14:50.140-07:002018-06-17T07:14:50.140-07:00There was ... once. It was BuShips but it's g...There was ... once. It was BuShips but it's gone now. There are probably a few specific pockets of limited responsibility but, no, there is no department tasked with this type of responsibility, to the best of my knowledge. And, if there is, they're not doing their job.ComNavOpshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09669644332369727431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-88120743248004330652018-06-17T06:24:26.332-07:002018-06-17T06:24:26.332-07:00In a war zone having been in transit for some time...In a war zone having been in transit for some time.Dave Wolfyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05161028886307241207noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-28554865992875738432018-06-17T06:16:53.086-07:002018-06-17T06:16:53.086-07:00Read the report on the sinking of HMS Sheffield, p...Read the report on the sinking of HMS Sheffield, pumps and generators not working. <br />That was a ship on it's way to a war zone.Dave Wolfyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05161028886307241207noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-89151678807257712252018-06-17T05:18:15.147-07:002018-06-17T05:18:15.147-07:00Very astute points. We never had this sort of prob...Very astute points. We never had this sort of problem (well, not in well run ships) in the "Old" (1980s!) Navy. Lockers were in the racks, exercise stuff was in the "Gym" (If there was one), and everything else was pretty securely bolted down to the deck or bulkhead. The first good roll underway usually sorted out who had not done their job in securing for sea.Captain Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17297301009511642108noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-55474616789167418092018-06-17T04:45:37.533-07:002018-06-17T04:45:37.533-07:00This might be a little bit off topic, but are they...This might be a little bit off topic, but are they any navy departments who are supposed to test and think about that kind of stuff?Storm Shadowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10999164214935172607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5579907756656776056.post-34038419298461580342018-06-16T21:58:55.542-07:002018-06-16T21:58:55.542-07:00Plastics can also create sharp edges when broken a...Plastics can also create sharp edges when broken and can also float creating the hazards as described in the article. <br /><br />On the inoperable pump, I haven't read the report, but is it possible the pump injested some FOD generated from the collision? 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